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Topping from the Bottom


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Yes, especially at the beginning of a spanking relationship. It's the tension between ensuring I give what the person needs (or get what I need) and just letting go and trusting the person to deliver (if she's the top). The better you know someone, in my experience, the less topping from the bottom is an issue.

Interestingly, I recently started playing with a lovely woman who wants to top - but has zero experience. So I've kind of accepted that for a while I will be topping from the bottom. After our two sessions (so far) I have written quite long emails giving her (requested) feedback. I've also sent her a few videos that show what I like. She has a surprisingly powerful hand and is very willing to learn, so I shall suffer through this learning process as best I can... ;) 

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This is such a good question... but, what do you consider to be topping from the bottom

I have been in situations like StrictGent where I have had to guide a new Top. The headspace was different and it was just fun / exploratory spanking. I also think it is important to differentiate between TFTB and having limits. 

Have I ever TFTBed? Definitely. Sometimes overtly and other times through bratting. In a disciplinary relationship, I try to avoid it, but it happens. 

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6 hours ago, rubyredd said:

Have I ever TFTBed? Definitely. Sometimes overtly and other times through bratting. In a disciplinary relationship, I try to avoid it, but it happens. 

I'll bet you have.  I just hope that you were convinced by what followed not to do it again.

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  • 1 month later...
On 11/17/2022 at 7:20 AM, rubyredd said:

This is such a good question... but, what do you consider to be topping from the bottom

I second this question. When I hear someone complain about topping from the bottom, what I really hear is that they don't respect the EEs boundaries and think they get to just do whatever they want. So hopefully that's not what the OP means in this case. 

If you are spanking someone and they feel the need to guide you, that could mean you've not built enough trust or not had enough communication with that person prior to the spanking.

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Excellent point.

One thing I always encourage from my EEs is communication. How else will I truly understand what they are feeling emotionally and physically. Trust and respect are also key. Spanking is a complex dynamic best experienced through open dialog and adjustments before, ESPECIALLY DURING and after a session.

This how I act and not a judgement of others.

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1 hour ago, BansheeGal said:

I second this question. When I hear someone complain about topping from the bottom, what I really hear is that they don't respect the EEs boundaries and think they get to just do whatever they want. So hopefully that's not what the OP means in this case. 

If you are spanking someone and they feel the need to guide you, that could mean you've not built enough trust or not had enough communication with that person prior to the spanking.

Banshee, I don't think it's a measure of trust.  It's a measure of personality.  If you're very aware of your need for discipline but ornery about someone (a man?) imposing it, then you'll try to top from the bottom.   A good disciplinarian can deal with that very nicely, thank you.   By the way, I don't hear much about male spankees topping from the bottom....  

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40 minutes ago, Chastener said:

Banshee, I don't think it's a measure of trust.  It's a measure of personality.  If you're very aware of your need for discipline but ornery about someone (a man?) imposing it, then you'll try to top from the bottom.   A good disciplinarian can deal with that very nicely, thank you.   By the way, I don't hear much about male spankees topping from the bottom....  

Note that this thread was started by a male EE. Not sure what that means but there it is. ;) I totally agree that a good disciplinarian can deal with that very nicely.

I think it's important to define what topping from the bottom looks like and then respond accordingly, mainly because there are a lot of men who think that being an ER means total domination and she doesn't get to have boundaries. Women, because of the way we raise boys vs girls, tend to be much better at respecting boundaries so it would make sense to me that we wouldn't hear as much about male EEs TFTB. It's also much safer for a man to be an EE with a female ER than it is for a woman to be an EE with a male ER. She has to have way more trust in the ER than he does in order to keep herself safe.

If an ER comes in here thinking that her setting boundaries is topping from the bottom and we assume he means that she's bratting and tell him to spank her for it...we've just contributed to a very bad situation.

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It hasn't been a challenge, but I can see where it could be. With regard to spanking and discipline, topping from the bottom to me is the EE pushing things in a direction of their choosing, rather than just surrendering to the will of the ER.

In a discipline relationship, the challenge for me could be due to contradictory desires. My attraction to discipline is centered on submission to authority strictly for the purpose of punishment, not a surrender because we're dominant or submissive. Punishment could be administered just the way I like to imagine it, or it could be 180 degrees off from that. So what to do? If I'm the ER, I want to assume absolute authority, but I also want it to be just right for her. So she may have to top from the bottom, at least to get us on the same page. If I was the EE, guiding her weakens the experience of surrendering to authority, so do I just bury my ideas of how I want to imagine punishment should be? I don't know. It's a push and pull kind of desire.

 

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23 hours ago, BansheeGal said:

Note that this thread was started by a male EE. Not sure what that means but there it is. ;) I totally agree that a good disciplinarian can deal with that very nicely.

I think it's important to define what topping from the bottom looks like and then respond accordingly, mainly because there are a lot of men who think that being an ER means total domination and she doesn't get to have boundaries. Women, because of the way we raise boys vs girls, tend to be much better at respecting boundaries so it would make sense to me that we wouldn't hear as much about male EEs TFTB. It's also much safer for a man to be an EE with a female ER than it is for a woman to be an EE with a male ER. She has to have way more trust in the ER than he does in order to keep herself safe.

If an ER comes in here thinking that her setting boundaries is topping from the bottom and we assume he means that she's bratting and tell him to spank her for it...we've just contributed to a very bad situation.

Totally agree.  If a male spanker can't accept a woman's setting boundaries, then he shouldn't ne spanking.

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It’s odd that some people have a different definition of topping from the bottom.  My wife has a friend that is also into spanking , and they will sometimes discuss things.  Recently my wife mentioned that I had made some suggestions on some videos we could watch that dealt with using a paddle etc.  Her friend said for her she would consider that topping from the bottom, and she would have dealt with it very quickly.  

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14 hours ago, Newredbottom said:

It’s odd that some people have a different definition of topping from the bottom.  My wife has a friend that is also into spanking , and they will sometimes discuss things.  Recently my wife mentioned that I had made some suggestions on some videos we could watch that dealt with using a paddle etc.  Her friend said for her she would consider that topping from the bottom, and she would have dealt with it very quickly.  

The definition is what you want it to be, which could be that you want your wife to define it for you. And having her define what is acceptable or not is a fairly common feature of the kind of authority-based relationships we like. However, I don't see anything odd about a "bottom" having their own fantasies, and wanting those fantasies fulfilled.

The question then is, what if your desires are not being met? What if your wife declared that there will be no more spankings? Where is the line drawn?

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I struggle with understanding this concept...and I hear it now and then on here. I am learning. I guess it kinda means a spankee tries to influence in some way or to some degree....the way and intensity of the spanking from the the spanker.

I guess I have discovered, as I kind of look back at our experience in our primarily disciplinary dynamic...there have been a few times I have tried to encourage my husband to be harder on me. So, I guess that would be "topping from the bottom". He does not like it when I do that. He says that is up to him, not me. I know there have been a few times in the past when I have brought him a very nasty braided leather whip and begged him to whip me with it...but he never has. There are times, but not in the last few years, that my guilt for some of my past sins, which are many and very awful... just overwhelms me, and I just want to be punished severely and cruelly...get what I really deserve. I bought this thing while we were dating and after he gave me my first few spankings as an adult. I have discussed it with my therapist, and she recommends I just keep it hanging in the back of my closet...until I can one day burn it. I am not there yet, but maybe someday...I dunno. I still kind of wish he would use it on me, but he says it is much too severe.

Looking back, I now realize he gets it...when I try to top from the bottom. He gets upset, but what he does is substitute a different kind of discipline in place of spanking me or whipping me. He will make me do more intense or difficult punitive exercise and/or punitive chores involving physical labor instead. Lol...I think I actually just now have figured that out...lol.

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On 12/28/2022 at 11:17 AM, BansheeGal said:

would make sense to me that we wouldn't hear as much about male EEs TFTB. It's also much safer for a man to be an EE with a female ER than it is for a woman to be an EE with a male ER.

Hmmm - as a male EE I would say "yes & no"

My theory about why one might not hear as much from a male EE TFTB, is because the "topping" is different, and therefore does not look or sound like the "topping" classically associated with women EE's.  My guess is that there should be a slightly different category called MFTB (manipulating from the bottom) - sort of the spanko version of "manspaining".  It might start with "Here's the way I'd really like to get spanked...." or "Here's what it would be great if you would wear..." etc, etc, etc.  That said, context and timing are everything in regards to this.  It's one thing to have intimate discussion separate from any spanking activity where both partners discuss preferences, desires, boundaries, etc.  It's totally a different story for someone who is face down with their pants at their ankles, to take over the role of producer, director and screenwriter for the scenario.

Regarding "safety", in general I agree that from a purely physical standpoint, males have more security, but it's also worth mentioning that when we're talking power dynamics,
there's other kinds of abuse besides physical.

Edited by DunBenSpanked
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On 1/9/2023 at 7:33 PM, DunBenSpanked said:

Hmmm - as a male EE I would say "yes & no"

My theory about why one might not hear as much from a male EE TFTB, is because the "topping" is different, and therefore does not look or sound like the "topping" classically associated with women EE's.  My guess is that there should be a slightly different category called MFTB (manipulating from the bottom) - sort of the spanko version of "manspaining".  It might start with "Here's the way I'd really like to get spanked...." or "Here's what it would be great if you would wear..." etc, etc, etc.  That said, context and timing are everything in regards to this.  It's one thing to have intimate discussion separate from any spanking activity where both partners discuss preferences, desires, boundaries, etc.  It's totally a different story for someone who is face down with their pants at their ankles, to take over the role of producer, director and screenwriter for the scenario.

Regarding "safety", in general I agree that from a purely physical standpoint, males have more security, but it's also worth mentioning that when we're talking power dynamics,
there's other kinds of abuse besides physical.

This is where the definition of TFTB becomes unsettled for me. I don't see, and maybe I'm wrong, where it has anything to do with safety. Within the consensual act of Topping and bottoming, it is a given that the EE is always protected with regard to their limits. It would be flat out nonsense to say that demanding this safety is an act of "Topping," regardless of gender, and who is identifying with any particular role. To me TFTB is the EE pushing, manipulating, or expecting the ER to fulfill their desire, rather than just submitting to the will of the ER within established boundaries.

With either gender, if there are strong personal desires and fantasies, there would be a natural urge to push towards finding fulfillment. Whether that's a good or useful thing, or detracts from the Top/bottom experience, depends on the people involved. As I think I said, I'm somewhere in the middle of that puzzle.

 

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