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De-sexualizing punishment spankings for vanillas


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Living in Utah, and being an LDS convert, I have come across some serious obstacles recently when it comes to discussing my spanking interests and needs. When I first discovered the spanko community 15 years ago, I wasn't religious myself, I didn't really have many religious friends, and I wasn't really interacting with religious vanillas... I kind of stuck to the community, or sought out others who had similar interests, and the only vanilla I really had to deal with was the one I was married to.

Now, I'm a part of a religious community... As well as being single....  Anyone I date or consider a potential partner, is going to have to know my needs and interests...   Utah is a pretty  conservative state, and there aren't many spankos around here in general....... Let alone religious spankos....... Or what's more, *single* religious spankos!  And if they exist, due to the nature of Mormon culture, they aren't going to be making themselves well known!

As a result....  I need to be able to know how to discuss my particular needs and interests regarding spanking and discipline, with vanillas, and within religious guidelines.

Now, for me personally, I can 100% separate sexual spankings from non-sexual punishment spankings....  And it is the latter that is what I mainly seek out and crave. I **need** structure and discipline, and for me it can be non-sexual.

However after having been on the dating scene for a couple of years now....   Every vanilla that I have opened up to about my interest, has **immediately** thought of pink fuzzy cuff kinky sex play.  They are unable to see it as anything *but* sexual! As a result, because this is the first thing that comes to their mind, the result tends to be either a.) They get excited and want to discuss repressed sex fantasies...  or b.) They become shocked and appalled that I, as a member of the church am participating in something "sexual" outside of marriage, with these "disciplinarians"  In either scenario, I try to emphasize the non-sexual disciplinary factor, and yet it seems like an absolute impossibility in their minds...

I'm wondering if it is at all possible, to explain spanking not as a kink or fetish, but as a legitimate form of discipline or therapy, in such a manner that it can become de-sexualized for vanillas? Or is that a pretty tall order?

Brevity is not one of my strengths, any attempts I've made, have been poor long winded attempts, that never seemed to make a lick of a difference no matter how many different ways I tried to phrase or explain things.

I feel like there has to be a better way to go about this, and am wondering if anyone here has any advice...

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Are you contemplating a DD arrangement for your LTR?  I'm just thinking this would be a lot easier to explain to a religious vanilla if you were.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      H.

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24 minutes ago, Handily said:

Are you contemplating a DD arrangement for your LTR?  I'm just thinking this would be a lot easier to explain to a religious vanilla if you were.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      H.

That's what I'm hoping for, and definitely do express this with potential partners...  I think the main area of concern is the point between here and there...  It might be more acceptable within a marriage... And while in a steady relationship or marriage it would definitely be my partner that I would be going to for discipline... I think it's trying to explain my working with a disciplinarian while single. 

I'm in no rush to jump into a relationship, and while I am working on my own personal goals and progress, I benefit greatly from having structure and discipline, it's something I need that helps me... Not to mention I don't want any desperation for such assistance to cloud my judgement.  I want to be honest and open about this, but need a way to explain what this actually is.   As in the eyes of most vanilla dating prospects, it just looks to them as if I'm having some kind of sexual encounters on the side...

For awhile I thought it would be easier to just keep things simple and do without  until I found a steady partner but I felt as though it would be giving up something that helped me progress, by caving in to the disapproval of others who had no significant or permanent place in my life yet.
 

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For one, I admire your choice in converting - the Church of Mormon is not a commitment taken lightly. "Christian Domestic Discipline" has its followers in the religious crowd, and I think if you're looking for that, you'll find it. That's the good news - the bad news is something you've already hit on, that this generally works within the confines of a marriage.

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I don't think you can make a vanilla understand. 

And while a spanking doesn't have to be sexual / erotic or end in sex, it is still part of our sexuality (even discipline).

So, it is hard for vanillas to understand that being a spanko might not include pink fuzzy cuffs and 50 Shades of BS. Some spankos are also into bondage and roleplay, so maybe pink cuffs are in their bag of tricks.

I dated a vanilla in high school who was more than happy to spank me, but... even now, 25+ years later, he doesn't understand that spanking and sex don't have to go together for me to be fulfilled. Spanking stands alone. My husband and I almost always have sex after a spanking, but we are both spankos - so it is different now. I have tried explaining it to vanillas (non-spankos) and most don't get it. 

The bottom line, though, is that vanillas aren't meant to be converted - so cast your net into the spanko lake and find a partner there. 

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I think what needs to be conveyed to them - is you have a coach, a fatherly/ brotherly figure, that helps keep you held accountable with the standards you want to hold yourself with. That it can be religious for you. I would explain all of this and then explain the methods of discipline used (if they seem accepting). I think you're right about being upfront as soon as possible.

If for you, like me, can separate and have two different ideas from a disciplinary figure that you see like a father/ brother and a long term romantic partner that would do DD as two separate things - at some point I would explain that to them too. That things you would be held accountable for in a platonic non-sexual mentorship is different than when you would submit to your husband. In a vanillas persons eyes, they might not grasp that until acutely broken down.

If you and the other person you disclose to start dating, let them know that their opinion matters, and you don't want them to feel uncomfortable. But this is who you are. It's either they are OK with you seeking out your needs and or/ possibly willing to be involved with helping you with them. Letting them know, and trying to involve them to their comfort level would be the best that can be done. 

How they react to you being single and submitting for discipline, let them know of all the progress, and all the steps being in that dynamic has helped you. Let them have time to choose how they are feeling over it and to pause for questions. Lately, explain that you are not perfect, you have struggles, and this helps you function.

But, even if they seem confused at the time, tell them you are willing to answer questions and ask them to take time to think about what you just shared. That sharing what you did wasn't easy. If you are opening up to someone you obviously feel chemistry, and like a honest connection could happen, and you wanted to trust them. 

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I have conversed with lots of Christian DD folks, and they seem to have integrated, or at least, accommodated that lifestyle within their religious beliefs and practices.  But not a one of them had a disciplinarian or spanking partner outside their marriage.  My wife and I are not all that religious, but my wife would never accept any sort of discipline or spanking outside our marriage.  Any efforts I could possibly make to try to distinguish disciplinary from erotic spanking outside the marriage would fall completely flat, guaranteed.  Do you feel you need to maintain a relationship with an outside disciplinarian if you are able find an appropriate HoH spouse that will meet your needs?  Do you feel the need to discuss or disclose your current spanking activities with potential mates?  Honesty is great, but that sounds like a difficult approach.  I never discussed my former sexual or spanking partners with my wife, before or after we were married.  Just none of her business.

 

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Thank you everyone for your input, it's been a huge help for me! ^_^
 

12 hours ago, Child of Light said:

I think what needs to be conveyed to them - is you have a coach, a fatherly/ brotherly figure, that helps keep you held accountable with the standards you want to hold yourself with. That it can be religious for you. I would explain all of this and then explain the methods of discipline used (if they seem accepting). I think you're right about being upfront as soon as possible.

If for you, like me, can separate and have two different ideas from a disciplinary figure that you see like a father/ brother and a long term romantic partner that would do DD as two separate things - at some point I would explain that to them too. That things you would be held accountable for in a platonic non-sexual mentorship is different than when you would submit to your husband. In a vanillas persons eyes, they might not grasp that until acutely broken down.

If you and the other person you disclose to start dating, let them know that their opinion matters, and you don't want them to feel uncomfortable. But this is who you are. It's either they are OK with you seeking out your needs and or/ possibly willing to be involved with helping you with them. Letting them know, and trying to involve them to their comfort level would be the best that can be done. 

How they react to you being single and submitting for discipline, let them know of all the progress, and all the steps being in that dynamic has helped you. Let them have time to choose how they are feeling over it and to pause for questions. Lately, explain that you are not perfect, you have struggles, and this helps you function.

But, even if they seem confused at the time, tell them you are willing to answer questions and ask them to take time to think about what you just shared. That sharing what you did wasn't easy. If you are opening up to someone you obviously feel chemistry, and like a honest connection could happen, and you wanted to trust them. 

Thank you for the thorough response! There are a couple of things you mentioned that I found particularly helpful for me...  Trying to emphasize the coach or fatherly/brotherly figure...   Starting from that point seems a better way to go about it....   I typically would start from the other end,  and mention my interests within a DD/HoH dynamic first...   which probably doesn't help things...  

The other thing that you mentioned that really struck a chord with me...    The "This is who you are" part...  I'm a people-pleaser who has struggled with codependency in past relationships and a low sense of self-esteem ... While I've gotten so so much better at it,  it's sometimes hard to assert myself, and I allow others opinions to influence me...

Your words here reminded me of something I was told once, after getting out of a toxic relationship.  They told me that the next time I felt like shutting down due to someone elses disapproval, in particular, a relationship...  To tell the other person  "This thing helps me to be the very best version of myself... If I were to give it up, than I no longer would be able to present my best self, and that wouldn't be good for either of us" 

 

 

10 hours ago, Rand E said:

I have conversed with lots of Christian DD folks, and they seem to have integrated, or at least, accommodated that lifestyle within their religious beliefs and practices.  But not a one of them had a disciplinarian or spanking partner outside their marriage.  My wife and I are not all that religious, but my wife would never accept any sort of discipline or spanking outside our marriage.  Any efforts I could possibly make to try to distinguish disciplinary from erotic spanking outside the marriage would fall completely flat, guaranteed.  Do you feel you need to maintain a relationship with an outside disciplinarian if you are able find an appropriate HoH spouse that will meet your needs?  Do you feel the need to discuss or disclose your current spanking activities with potential mates?  Honesty is great, but that sounds like a difficult approach.  I never discussed my former sexual or spanking partners with my wife, before or after we were married.  Just none of her business.

 

I would want to switch over to my partner the very moment we were to enter into a steady relationship... If I were to marry again, I would have to know that DD could be a part of that first, and would go to them, not another disciplinarian.

As for disclosing my current activities, it is something I feel is important to me, if I was seriously considering a relationship with someone.  Not only because I hate withholding information, and would rather overshare than undershare....  But because while it may not be sexual for me, and I would see nothing wrong with it, I would know that my partner might feel quite differently.  They don't need to know every interaction I have ever had with others... But because knowing this could be a concern and even potentially a deal breaker for them, I feel like I need to be open about it... I don't feel I could keep something in if I felt it was something a potential partner would want or need to know...

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1 hour ago, cat627 said:

Thank you everyone for your input, it's been a huge help for me! ^_^
 

Thank you for the thorough response! There are a couple of things you mentioned that I found particularly helpful for me...  Trying to emphasize the coach or fatherly/brotherly figure...   Starting from that point seems a better way to go about it....   I typically would start from the other end,  and mention my interests within a DD/HoH dynamic first...   which probably doesn't help things...  

The other thing that you mentioned that really struck a chord with me...    The "This is who you are" part...  I'm a people-pleaser who has struggled with codependency in past relationships and a low sense of self-esteem ... While I've gotten so so much better at it,  it's sometimes hard to assert myself, and I allow others opinions to influence me...

Your words here reminded me of something I was told once, after getting out of a toxic relationship.  They told me that the next time I felt like shutting down due to someone elses disapproval, in particular, a relationship...  To tell the other person  "This thing helps me to be the very best version of myself... If I were to give it up, than I no longer would be able to present my best self, and that wouldn't be good for either of us" 

 

 

I would want to switch over to my partner the very moment we were to enter into a steady relationship... If I were to marry again, I would have to know that DD could be a part of that first, and would go to them, not another disciplinarian.

As for disclosing my current activities, it is something I feel is important to me, if I was seriously considering a relationship with someone.  Not only because I hate withholding information, and would rather overshare than undershare....  But because while it may not be sexual for me, and I would see nothing wrong with it, I would know that my partner might feel quite differently.  They don't need to know every interaction I have ever had with others... But because knowing this could be a concern and even potentially a deal breaker for them, I feel like I need to be open about it... I don't feel I could keep something in if I felt it was something a potential partner would want or need to know...

I see your point of view.  Every relationship and every marriage will likely be different on the point of how much you share with one another.  My wife and I trust each other implicitly, and share our thoughts, feelings, and opinions, but I'm a private person, and I still need some sort of psychological private space of my own.  I think she is the same way, so it works out fine.  Compatibility matters a lot.  I wish you well and hope you find your soul-mate.

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On 7/21/2022 at 12:15 AM, cat627 said:

 Utah is a pretty  conservative state, and there aren't many spankos around here in general....... Let alone religious spankos....... Or what's more, *single* religious spankos!  And if they exist, due to the nature of Mormon culture, they aren't going to be making themselves well known!
 

So...I know a guy in Salt Lake who is a professional "Life Coach" who includes discipline for individuals and couples. I talked with him on the phone one night and he gave me a lot of the details. He said because of the lack of monogamy in LDS and the fact that many of the men are pretty arrogant about that he has to "counsel" a lot of couples having problems related to the polygamy dynamic. 

It was a long conversation and I won't go into the details but he said he gives them one warning and if they don't correct the problems he paddles them (bare). He said everyone in town knows what he does. I asked him how he stays out of jail. He said the Chief of Police and his wife are clients.

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Perhaps the first problem you have to confront is that spanking can't be totally de-sexualized.  I give only disciplinary spankings, and almost all of my disciplinees are married women.  Almost all of them recognize some sort of sexual thrill (yes!) from the discipline when no overt sexual activity is involved.  So you can't blame your male acquaintances from jumping to conclusions.  My guess is that you'll have to get further into a relationship with someone you trust and then reveal your need for discipline.  See what his reaction is then. Most of my disciplinees came to the understanding that they needed corporal discipline only after a long period of thought.  It may  not be convenient, but new spankers may need the same kind of inner resolution.  It's difficult, I know, and men aren't the most initially sensitive beings, but give it time.

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  • 1 month later...

I don’t even know what the term vanilla means but I found this site because I was searching curious if there are other people like me who desire discipline in a non sexual way. I can completely separate the two and non sexual spankings make a lot more sense to me. 

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Discipline is the ingredient in spanking that draws me to this particular activity. It is a sexual motivation, but it satisfies only if the purpose of the spanking is disciplinary, and not as a prelude to sex. I take people's word for it when they say their desire is non-sexual, but I wonder why spanking is the attraction. Why spanking? There are other methods of discipline that seem more appropriate, or at least easier to explain, for a non-sexual relationship. I think if one can answer the question, it could help in explaining this desire for spanking to vanillas and BDSM spankers.

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