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Okay folks.  I know we have had some vigorous discussion about consent in the past.  But I don't see any recent threads in here that really get to the heart of the matter.  This can be the proverbial 3rd rail when it comes to this things we do.  There are lots of critics out there that just plain don't like adult spanking, and concoct every form of criticism to deter or suppress it.  The one critical area that I would like to touch on, and get input from everybody, is the issue of consent. 

What are your specific criteria that must be met to establish that your spanking activities, whether as an ER or an EE, are fully consensual?  How does this vary between partners who are in a long-term relationship or marriage versus folks who have different partners in less formal relationships?  How do you satisfy yourself that whatever you do meets your own standards of consensual behavior?  How do you ensure that you have a meeting-of-the-minds so that you and your partner both agree completely on the ground rules and permitted behaviors?. 

Now, I'm not necessarily speaking about safety protocols.  I see that there are some excellent threads about precautions to take and safety-call arrangement and such where you are meeting new spanking partners and there is a risk of stranger danger.  Actually, when I was reading through the threads on these safety precautions, it struck me that they are generally good advice and applicable to all folks, spanko or vanilla, looking for intimate partners.   My son and daughter are at that age where they are sexually active with different partners, and I encourage them to be careful and safe.  We all know, It's a dangerous world out there for everybody.  

However, the kind of consent topic I want to touch on is more specific to how you conducted your spanking arrangement once you commence with it.  And i realize we are all coming at this from different angles.  The last time I was dating and looking for partners was 28 years ago.  I have been married happily to my spanko wife ever since.  I don't expect to have that sort of discussion with a new partner any time soon, if ever.  But even well-establish long-term relationships and marriages may raise concerns about consent and having a meeting-of-the-minds.  My wife and I have well-developed protocols and understandings that help keep things on the right track. 

In addition to SN, I hang out at the domestic-discipline.net forum a bit as well.  In the case of DD relationships, it seems that they are more of long-term in nature, consisting of married couples or long-term partners.  They have the concept of consensual non-consent that guides many of their DD arrangements.  Is that an element in your own spanking relationship?  Do you spank for discipline?  If so, do you consider your relationship one of domestic discipline?  Or do you prefer to call it something else?  And in either case, where punishment is involved, how do you ensure that the arrangement remains in essence consensual?

 

 

 

 

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This topic is certainly an important one - and one I need to think about before responding in depth. Thanks for starting it in the forums, too. I hope it will remain civil!

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I'm a switch spanko in a 24-7 Dom-sub dynamic with my hubbs.  I sub to him, and top others.  We have been together for 9 yrs and in a D-s dynamic for 18 mths.

As a bottom, most of my spankings are 100% consensual.  We have safe words that mean stop no matter what.  We haven't really spoken much about CNC, but "he is in control 24-7.".  Now, he is a gentle type so for the most part, if I resist something, he will back down.  It took a lot of communication and time to convince him that if I am saying "eek! No Daddy I was just kidding!😜" to spank me any way.  Lol.   We have safe words that are in play always.  I have used "yellow" once, and never needed red.  On 3 occassions I did try to actually tell him he didn't  need to spank me and he did actually spank me quite well anyway.  On all 3 occassions we were both frustrated by trying to navigate the D-s and a lack of privacy, and all 3 times it was right for both of us.  I could have called red and he would have not proceeded.  

As a top, I have mainly spanked people I don't know that well.  To make sure we are on the same page I ask questions. What do you want-need to be spanked for?  What type of spanking are you looking for?  How do you feel about impliments?.  Do you have any impliment requests or vetos?  How do you feel about marks?  What are your hard limits?  I also insist on safe words.  

I know this conversation kond of deflates the fantasy a bit, especoally for those who prefer funishment -punishment spankings, but they are important when starting a power dynamic, even if it is just pick up play.  I try to stay well in the lines.  I feel that the boundries can often be pushed into a less "discussed" area once you know someone better and have a good feel for what they need, like, and want.    

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10 hours ago, Megthe said:

I'm a switch spanko in a 24-7 Dom-sub dynamic with my hubbs.  I sub to him, and top others.  We have been together for 9 yrs and in a D-s dynamic for 18 mths.

As a bottom, most of my spankings are 100% consensual.  We have safe words that mean stop no matter what.  We haven't really spoken much about CNC, but "he is in control 24-7.".  Now, he is a gentle type so for the most part, if I resist something, he will back down.  It took a lot of communication and time to convince him that if I am saying "eek! No Daddy I was just kidding!😜" to spank me any way.  Lol.   We have safe words that are in play always.  I have used "yellow" once, and never needed red.  On 3 occassions I did try to actually tell him he didn't  need to spank me and he did actually spank me quite well anyway.  On all 3 occassions we were both frustrated by trying to navigate the D-s and a lack of privacy, and all 3 times it was right for both of us.  I could have called red and he would have not proceeded.  

As a top, I have mainly spanked people I don't know that well.  To make sure we are on the same page I ask questions. What do you want-need to be spanked for?  What type of spanking are you looking for?  How do you feel about impliments?.  Do you have any impliment requests or vetos?  How do you feel about marks?  What are your hard limits?  I also insist on safe words.  

I know this conversation kond of deflates the fantasy a bit, especoally for those who prefer funishment -punishment spankings, but they are important when starting a power dynamic, even if it is just pick up play.  I try to stay well in the lines.  I feel that the boundries can often be pushed into a less "discussed" area once you know someone better and have a good feel for what they need, like, and want.    

I never went outside the marriage to interact with other spankos.  It sounds like you worked out a dynamic with your husband first, and then ventured into other spanking relationships.   So, looking back to when you were new to spanking and you were engaging with spanking partners, perhaps your husband was the first, I don't know, did you start off with the safe word protocols and the discussion of the details as you outlined above?  

I'm a bit long in the tooth for this, but looking back to my dating days, I will admit that I took a different tact.  I started with foo-foo spankings during sex that really did not rease any consent issues.  I gradually increased the intensity over time.  I did not discuss safe words.  Not in the sense that there was no communications, but rather, the "safe" words were just plain English - stop, slow down, that hurts, etc.   So, my inclination for newer spanko folks is not to introduce "safe" words.  This implies that you are dispensing with normal expressions in plain English, rather than just let words retain their normal meaning.  Stop means stop.  Go means go.  etc.  

At some point, you reach the stage where the communications may not be so clear.  For example, when the EE is reacting to the pain of a spanking and exclaims "that hurts!" is that a sign that they are in distress?  Should you slow down or stop?  Or is it okay?  You mentioned spanking EEs that you did not know that well.  When did it reach a point when you worried that you might be out of sync with what they had in mind?  No knowing them well, did you sometimes doubt the communications going on when you were administering the spanking?  

 

 

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@Rand E,You are right, hubbs was the first person I engaged in any kind of spanking with.  Like you it was sort of light goofy erotic stuff.  We got this super little flogger at a sex toy store that could barely hurt a fly lol.    And like you, we didn't really discuss it beyond seeing it and going "ohh how about this?" "Sure ok".    It was 5 yrs after that initial purchase before we upped pur game and bought a crop.  About a year before that we had vaguely discussed both being interested in Kink, basic D-s , but he was really hesitant about it, thinking he couldn't "dominate someone I love".   We weren't even doing erotic hand spankings.  We used the crop lightly several times over the next few months, not really doing too much, but he knew I really liked it.   I dunno what came over him, but one night, he tied me up and spanked me harder than ever before with the crop, and used lots of domly flex tones to order me to count, etc.  When he was done spanking me I  was begging him to kiss me and that was it.  I was in full sib frenzy for the next several months.  I kept bringing it up and asking for more.  We started as just in the bedroom and then I asked to extend the scene to putting down some funishment rules to try to follow, just for a few hours at a time.  That quickly lead to us both wanting 24-7, and me wanting to add real Domestic discipline. He still isn't really sold on that part, but he will step up and punish me of I break a rule we have established as punishment worthy, and he has gotten more comfortable with it as we have done it. So between us there was a ton of play and communication over the last 18 months to get us to the dynamoc we have now.  He actually suggested I find people to spank.

The "normal English" is something I also discuss with new people.  I will ask if they want me to follow those instructions or do they want to play closer to CNC where I ignore protests etc unless they use a safe word.  I know as a bottom I LIKE to be able to ask to stop and resist etc and have it  fall on deaf ears.  I habe told hubbs "I am almost never ACTUALLY trying to talk you out of a spanking.  I want you to take control and make it happen."  Especially if it is funishment level.  So I give people the option.  And then I tend to err on the side of caution as well.  I figure if I go to lightly this time, or stop a bit too early, that may be annoying for the ee, But is better for both of us than if I go too far.  I am still very inexperoenced as a top, but  At this point, I have not spanked anyone who has asked me to stop or anything to indicate they are  approaching or at their threshold.  

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Do you think tears can act as a "safe word" that means the spanking should cease and consent has been revoked?   I know in some DD relationships that a spanking is not a proper spanking unless tears are forthcoming from the EE.   But I could also imagine , especially if you're playing with someone new, that tears could be shocking and nerve wracking for the ER...as in," oh shit, did I go too far?  what have I done?"     In other circumstances, I know some EEs Do Not Cry from a spanking no matter the intensity...they just aren't criers.     Just curious about your thoughts on crying.  

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5 hours ago, AfterGeometry said:

Do you think tears can act as a "safe word" that means the spanking should cease and consent has been revoked?   I know in some DD relationships that a spanking is not a proper spanking unless tears are forthcoming from the EE.   But I could also imagine , especially if you're playing with someone new, that tears could be shocking and nerve wracking for the ER...as in," oh shit, did I go too far?  what have I done?"     In other circumstances, I know some EEs Do Not Cry from a spanking no matter the intensity...they just aren't criers.     Just curious about your thoughts on crying.  

This would not work for me because I am one of those spankees that cannot seem to cry. It isn't that I don't want to, I just don't (or haven't in the last 25 years of spanking). I don't think crying is a great gauge for that reason, but also because some spankos cry quickly or nearly every time. 

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So, when I first started getting spanked - by my boyfriend in high school - I didn't know about safewords or the varieties of consent or any of it.

I was born a spanko and I just knew that I wanted to be spanked. So I asked... and I instigated. And we dated for almost two years and he spanked me constantly. It was never a full scene; it was almost always OTK over my clothes. I didn't even know the acronym back then. And after first broaching the subject, I don't know that I ever said the word "spanking" to him again. Same with HS boyfriend #2 - the only one to make me cry. 

Safewords were not a part of my early relationships and I didn't know about them until after I started reading about spanking on the Internet (late 90s) - and it was actually a couple of years after getting internet access because, at first, I only read stories. The one constant, though... my consent. I would label that as "implied consent" - though I would usually signal consent (or my desire to be spanked) through bratting / instigation. 

So, because safewords were not something I had used before... I just never forced the issue with play partners. In my 20s, I met with many spankos - and I only ever had a safeword with one of them (at his request). I know this isn't a topic about safewords, but I want to give some background. A few regular partners have or had carte blanche consent / implied consent to spank me whenever (and wherever and however).

So, consent. I can give it and I can take it away. Even in a disciplinary situation. Any time. Because it is my body and I have bodily autonomy. And because I am the one getting spanked. My partners have the right to not spank me or to not continue a spanking relationship with me (if they don't want to respect my autonomy). I am, first and foremost, a spanko. I love to be spanked. But, if I say "no spanking" - which would be incredibly rare - then the Top needs to listen because something is wrong. 

Does it matter if the spanking is for discipline or funishment? Nope, not to me. If I withdraw my consent to be spanked, then that is it. If a Top cannot come up with another non-spanking punishment, then s/he isn't the right disciplinary partner for me. If I withdraw my consent completely, then there is something very wrong and we need to have a deep conversation. But, for me, withdrawing consent to be spanked does not mean I won't be disciplined. It could mean that the spanking is postponed or it could mean a supplemental punishment. The older I get, though, the more I move away from any desire for real DD. 

But, here is the thing about implied consent: we have to respect each other or it doesn't work. That takes time. It takes building trust. In each other. Implied consent is not one-sided; it is an agreement between two people and should be built on a foundation of respect and caring. 

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10 hours ago, AfterGeometry said:

Do you think tears can act as a "safe word" that means the spanking should cease and consent has been revoked?   I know in some DD relationships that a spanking is not a proper spanking unless tears are forthcoming from the EE.   But I could also imagine , especially if you're playing with someone new, that tears could be shocking and nerve wracking for the ER...as in," oh shit, did I go too far?  what have I done?"     In other circumstances, I know some EEs Do Not Cry from a spanking no matter the intensity...they just aren't criers.     Just curious about your thoughts on crying.  

The first few times I cried with my hubbs I hid it.  I would also work hard to be pretty stoic during the spanking, knowing he would back off or ease up if I said ow or ouch, i have actually remonded him.mid spanking that spankongs hurt and ow and ouch are NOT safe words.  If that doesn't work I kick at him or something like that to indicate consent through bratting.  For me, i want him to continue when I am crying.  I need the help to cry it out. 

I haven't topped anyone who has cried.  I wouldn't necessaroly consider that a safe word unless we had discussed it.  But I would take the whole scene into consideration.  Are they struggling to stay in position? Are they able to vocalize and respond to questions?  Are they crying and begging me to stop?  I think I would take that moment to pause and either send them to the corner or switch impliments.  Maybe lotion?  I would feel out the situation. 

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I would imagine that some of the early spanking conversations between a new EE and new ER may be a bit awkward. I was considering not bothering with a safe word as my ER is already going to be hesitant about hurting me and will probably be more likely to pull back than overdo it, but I’m beginning to think a safe word will make it easier on him to be reassured that I’m okay and that consent isn’t an issue even if I am crying, squirming, or saying ow.

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On 6/9/2021 at 4:16 AM, rubyredd said:

This would not work for me because I am one of those spankees that cannot seem to cry. It isn't that I don't want to, I just don't (or haven't in the last 25 years of spanking). I don't think crying is a great gauge for that reason, but also because some spankos cry quickly or nearly every time. 

I agree.  Crying happens for all kinds of reasons besides the intensity or appropriateness of the spanking.  When my wife or I are administering discipline, crying makes absolutely no difference as far as consent.  I don't cry, but my wife has taken me to the point of distress where I can't even think straight.  My wife hardly ever cries, and it freaks me out when she does, but she has told me that it is helpful to the process and does not want me to react to it or do anything differently.  She says if there is a problem, she will let me know explicitly (safe word).  So far, that hasn't happened for either of us with respect to disciplinary spankings.  Plus, I feel like if I tap out, I'm being a wimp, so, due to (perhaps misplaced) pride, I just have to take whatever is being dished out to me no matter what.

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19 hours ago, Summer said:

I would imagine that some of the early spanking conversations between a new EE and new ER may be a bit awkward. I was considering not bothering with a safe word as my ER is already going to be hesitant about hurting me and will probably be more likely to pull back than overdo it, but I’m beginning to think a safe word will make it easier on him to be reassured that I’m okay and that consent isn’t an issue even if I am crying, squirming, or saying ow.

Your comment brings up a very salient point that has long puzzled me as far as adopting safe words.  As you mentioned, if you have no safe words, it makes sense for the EE to give the normal meaning to whatever the ER says or does.  No mean no.  That hurts means tone it down.  That's enough means move onto whatever comes next.  If you agree that there is no special alternative meaning to anything we say or do in the course of a spanking, then safe words aren't really required.  Normal words have their usual meaning and serve as "safe words" themselves.

However, there is this sense that when you adopt a safe-word protocol, you are also implicitly adopting the notion that normal words and their usual meaning no longer apply.  In effect, you are agreeing that no does not necessarily mean no, stop does not mean stop, etc.  Only the safe words have those meaning and everything else is to be treated like role-play make-believe language or otherwise ignored during the spanking process.

And even beyond the freedom to say anything the ER and EE want as part of role-play, there is also that issue you raised of exclamations we all make through clenched teeth (unless you are some remarkable stoic and impervious to pain) such as "That hurts!" or "Babe, you are fucking killing me!" (Yes, I actually said that once).  But I want to be able to shout and verbalize and grunt and moan without worrying that it will affect the process.  If I have an actual serious problem, I know the safe words, and I can use them if needed.

But that bridge of adopting safe words and agreeing to ignore normal expression is a big milestone to me.  I think the conventional wisdom is that adopting safe words is all good and only reduces risk for folks new to spanking.  But that element of dropping the normal meaning of words, as in no does not mean no, and stop does not mean stop, could be considered a bit problematic if you are talking about new partners or you don't have some experience to draw on.  And of course, some folks that are critical of or hostile to adult spanking consider it problematic under every and all circumstances.

 

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On 6/9/2021 at 4:54 AM, rubyredd said:

So, consent. I can give it and I can take it away. Even in a disciplinary situation. Any time. Because it is my body and I have bodily autonomy. And because I am the one getting spanked. My partners have the right to not spank me or to not continue a spanking relationship with me (if they don't want to respect my autonomy). I am, first and foremost, a spanko. I love to be spanked. But, if I say "no spanking" - which would be incredibly rare - then the Top needs to listen because something is wrong. 

Even though the thread topic is broadly about consent, words, whether normal words in their usual sense, or safe words in their special sense, are an inherent element of communicating consent.  You mentioned that you can say "no spanking" and you mean what you say. 

However, that would usually be prior to any spanking taking place.  When we talk about safe words, I think most of us are referring to words you may use after the spanking has commenced, as a means to keep it under control and continuously consensual.  Before the spanking even gets started, there is the question of how the ER and EE go about reaching the point of agreeing to the spanking in the first place. 

Although the thought has crossed my mind, I have never really addressed the question of pre-spanking consent or safe-words with my wife.  I think what we do would be typical of long-term or married couples.  Hints, remarks, body language, bratting, teasing, etc. communicate an interest in having sex or having a spanking scene.  This is often implicit non-verbal consent, but we know each other too well for too long to get our wires crossed.

For folks that don't know each other well, that might not be so straightforward.  I suppose you could just agree that the safe-word protocol applies pre-spanking.  That might actually be necessary for certain types of role-playing where setting the scene involves some dialogue and behavior that is part of the process, including protestations and pleading on the part of the EE prior to any spanking action taking place.  If your safe word is "red" you could just have a discussion to ensure that the safe words are always in play before, during, and after.  That might be a bit awkward sounding such as ER: "Get over here you brat. You're getting a spanking!"  EE: "RED! RED! RED!".  But I guess that's not really a problem.  You could put it another way and say "Sorry, but that's definitely a RED for tonight."  Plain language with a simple word substitution for NO.

And, I hope it goes without saying, that whatever the method of communications a couple agrees to, they must both abide by it.  If you say NO or the safe-word equivalent, that means NO.  For my wife and I, even after all these years and the fact that we can read each other like an open book, our safe-word protocol is inviolate.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Rand E said:

Your comment brings up a very salient point that has long puzzled me as far as adopting safe words.  As you mentioned, if you have no safe words, it makes sense for the EE to give the normal meaning to whatever the ER says or does.  No mean no.  That hurts means tone it down.  That's enough means move onto whatever comes next.  If you agree that there is no special alternative meaning to anything we say or do in the course of a spanking, then safe words aren't really required.  Normal words have their usual meaning and serve as "safe words" themselves.

However, there is this sense that when you adopt a safe-word protocol, you are also implicitly adopting the notion that normal words and their usual meaning no longer apply.  In effect, you are agreeing that no does not necessarily mean no, stop does not mean stop, etc.  Only the safe words have those meaning and everything else is to be treated like role-play make-believe language or otherwise ignored during the spanking process.

And even beyond the freedom to say anything the ER and EE want as part of role-play, there is also that issue you raised of exclamations we all make through clenched teeth (unless you are some remarkable stoic and impervious to pain) such as "That hurts!" or "Babe, you are fucking killing me!" (Yes, I actually said that once).  But I want to be able to shout and verbalize and grunt and moan without worrying that it will affect the process.  If I have an actual serious problem, I know the safe words, and I can use them if needed.

But that bridge of adopting safe words and agreeing to ignore normal expression is a big milestone to me.  I think the conventional wisdom is that adopting safe words is all good and only reduces risk for folks new to spanking.  But that element of dropping the normal meaning of words, as in no does not mean no, and stop does not mean stop, could be considered a bit problematic if you are talking about new partners or you don't have some experience to draw on.  And of course, some folks that are critical of or hostile to adult spanking consider it problematic under every and all circumstances.

 

I guess for me it’s the opposite of ignoring other words, it’s giving the ER valuable information without stopping the spanking. It’s an acknowledgment that an involuntary utterance isn’t the whole message. A “no” may just be an “I was not expecting this”. A “stop” may not mean stop the spanking, it could be “would you stop wailing on that one spot” and the rest of the message was lost in the moment. It can be hard to carry on a more specific conversation in the moment, I would imagine.  I think the ER pausing long enough to check in with the EE to get the bigger picture is great. That way the EE feels free to express whatever needs to come out of the mouth, the ER is getting valuable information, and both know that there is a very clear one word utterance that will absolutely stop the spanking if necessary so consent isn’t wishy-washy.

I think I’ll adopt the stop light colors so I can call yellow when my feet cramp. My feet sometimes cramp at random times and will absolutely illicit an “ow ow ow” that may get lost among the spanking “ows”. 😁
 

 

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On 6/9/2021 at 4:54 AM, rubyredd said:

Does it matter if the spanking is for discipline or funishment? Nope, not to me. If I withdraw my consent to be spanked, then that is it. If a Top cannot come up with another non-spanking punishment, then s/he isn't the right disciplinary partner for me. If I withdraw my consent completely, then there is something very wrong and we need to have a deep conversation. But, for me, withdrawing consent to be spanked does not mean I won't be disciplined. It could mean that the spanking is postponed or it could mean a supplemental punishment. The older I get, though, the more I move away from any desire for real DD. 

But, here is the thing about implied consent: we have to respect each other or it doesn't work. That takes time. It takes building trust. In each other. Implied consent is not one-sided; it is an agreement between two people and should be built on a foundation of respect and caring. 

When my wife and I started a DD arrangement, after 25+ years of being heavy switch spankos, it did create some questions and issues that were not present when we were just spanking for fun and relaxation.

Generally, the run up to a disciplinary spanking is a completely different thing (at least for us) from an erotic spanking.  We have a structured set of rules and consequences, and the punishment is triggered by a rule-break.  The process started with the ER calling out the EE for breaking the rule.  Things get interesting, and sometimes a bit intense, at that point.  I remember when we did those first few disciplinary spankings, there was a certain novelty and excitement to it.  It's a total head rush the first few times you are actually punishing your spouse.  It can even be a bit erotic even as it is disciplinary.  That novelty wore off and now, getting called out for discipline is something we both try strenuously to avoid.  At this point in our DD arrangement, neither of us is ever remotely in the mood for those consequences the way we are for fun or erotic spankings.

That's where the consent issue gets more interesting.  In a disciplinary situation, if the EE can simply say, sorry, I'm not in the mood. then it's not really discipline in any real sense.  Might as well call it funishment and leave it at that.  That was also one of the reasons I chatted a lot with the folks on the DD forum about how they handle issues such as consent and safe-words.  I learned about the concept of consensual non-consent (CNC).  I'm not knocking the idea of CNC for everybody, but I did not consider it workable for my wife and me.  What it seems to do is, in the name of making the discipline genuine, is drop all the safeguards that would normally apply in the moment.  If you ever contemplate doing that, it would be best reserved as an option for highly experienced long-term couples.

So, we agreed on a safe-word modification, of sorts.  For fun spankings, the RED safe-word means stop, let's move on.  YELLOW (in our case it's BANANA - we picked this up from a Family Guy episode) means slow down or lower the intensity.  For discipline, having the YELLOW safe word makes no sense since the whole idea is to push it past the usual pain tolerance threshold until it is very unpleasant.  If the EE could just tone it down with a safe word at any time, the whole process could be derailed by just toning down to tolerable or even pleasant levels.  So, in the context of our DD arrangement, using the RED safe-word still means stop, but it also means that the particular punishment will be resumed later.  It is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.  And, as an added incentive, the re-do will start at the beginning, with no credit for previous time served, so to speak.  So we both realize that, once it begins, the only course of action that makes sense for the EE is to tough it out and get it over with.

So far, neither of us has used the RED safe-word in any spanking context yet.  I guess we will have to sort it out when and if that happens, although I doubt it will because we don't expect to ever be that far out of sync having done this for so many years.  But, even for discipline, I still want some sort of safety-valve available.

 

 

 

 

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On 6/9/2021 at 4:54 AM, rubyredd said:

I was born a spanko and I just knew that I wanted to be spanked.

I'm not sure any of us was born a spanko.  Perhaps maybe about the time the delivery room doctor slapped our butt.  :P

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I’m my inexperience, I may be overestimating the difficulty of speaking during a disciplinary spanking. I need to remember to hush and learn instead of sharing my two cents since I have no experience. 

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9 hours ago, Summer said:

I’m my inexperience, I may be overestimating the difficulty of speaking during a disciplinary spanking. I need to remember to hush and learn instead of sharing my two cents since I have no experience. 

No you bring up a valid point and one we failed to touch on, which is non verbal safe words.  One thing I have read about is holding something, like a ball or a bell.  If you drop it, that counts as a safe word, for those moments when you are non-verbal for any reason.  The club I got spanked at uses hand signals as well. 

 

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18 hours ago, Summer said:

I guess for me it’s the opposite of ignoring other words, it’s giving the ER valuable information without stopping the spanking. It’s an acknowledgment that an involuntary utterance isn’t the whole message. A “no” may just be an “I was not expecting this”. A “stop” may not mean stop the spanking, it could be “would you stop wailing on that one spot” and the rest of the message was lost in the moment. It can be hard to carry on a more specific conversation in the moment, I would imagine.  I think the ER pausing long enough to check in with the EE to get the bigger picture is great. That way the EE feels free to express whatever needs to come out of the mouth, the ER is getting valuable information, and both know that there is a very clear one word utterance that will absolutely stop the spanking if necessary so consent isn’t wishy-washy.

I think I’ll adopt the stop light colors so I can call yellow when my feet cramp. My feet sometimes cramp at random times and will absolutely illicit an “ow ow ow” that may get lost among the spanking “ows”. 😁
 

 

Yes.  Definitely.  Your point about safe words being simpler and more clear than regular language is maybe the most important thing about them.  As you pointed out, the EE, under stress, may have trouble finding the words, so to speak, and not clearly express the need to stop or slow down, whereas safe words are unambiguous and easy to invoke.  This is perhaps more important as a safety measure than even the consent aspect.

As far as consent, it's interesting that you pointed out how a safe word protocol can clarify consent even when other clear consent has been given beforehand.  There were some occasions on the forum here where I described DD activities with my wife, and some were concerned about a lack of consent.  I pointed out that my wife and I have an inviolate safe word protocol which all but guarantees (absent some sort of duress or coercion) that any spanking activities we engage in, whether recreational or punitive, are not just consensual, but moment-by-moment consensual.  

Given that adult spanking is controversial in some circles, with most serious criticisms claiming or implying that it is somehow abusive or non-consensual, I think it helps the reputation of the spanko community to have near universal adoption of safe words, along with other safety protocols, to help rebut these criticisms from spanking critics.  I like the notion of the red-yellow-green safe words being popularized even outside the spanking and BDSM communities, and, based on my non-scientific sampling on Google, I think awareness of them has increased.

Are you sure you are a newby?  Your comments sound so thoughtful and experienced.  You must be a quick study.  :)

 

 

 

 

  

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5 minutes ago, Rand E said:

 

Are you sure you are a newby?  Your comments sound so thoughtful and experienced.  You must be a quick study.  :)

 

 

 

 

  

I have been working my way through reading all the threads on the domestic discipline forum (the one I’ve seen you mention several times here and I’ve seen you over there) and have learned a lot. So, very much a newby, but I’m motivated to learn. 😊

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2 hours ago, Megthe said:

No you bring up a valid point and one we failed to touch on, which is non verbal safe words.  One thing I have read about is holding something, like a ball or a bell.  If you drop it, that counts as a safe word, for those moments when you are non-verbal for any reason.  The club I got spanked at uses hand signals as well. 

 

Non-verbal safe words (or signals) is a totally new area to me.  I used the actual verbal safe words when dating, and my wife adopted them from the beginning.  My problem in commenting on these matters is that I have not had different spanking partners other than my wife in over 25+ years, so I am very curious how one goes about these matters when you have new partners on a regular basis where you don't have a long history or familiarity with one another to draw on in order to avoid miscommunications.

For those situations where hand signals or other non-verbal cues are used, my first question would be what the sort of situations are where verbal safe words might be insufficient.  For example, I have read about the phenomenon of the EE going into sub-space, which might impede the ability of the EE to communication, but then, I'm not sure non-verbal substitutes would do any better at avoiding that issue.

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6 minutes ago, Summer said:

I have been working my way through reading all the threads on the domestic discipline forum (the one I’ve seen you mention several times here and I’ve seen you over there) and have learned a lot. So, very much a newby, but I’m motivated to learn. 😊

I know there are some DD folks on the SN forum here, but the attitudes over there on that DD forum concerning safety and safe words is, I think, a bit different than advice you would get here.  I think one big difference is that DD is mainly practiced by long-term or married couples.  On average, the folks there have less to worry about as far as having multiple partners, frequent new partners, and all the stranger danger issues to contend with when meeting new DD partners.  So, on average, the DD couples know each other pretty well, often for years, and I can tell you from my experience, consent issues pretty much disappear once you and your partner can read each other like an open book.  So, my impression is that the DD folks tend to worry less about consent and often don't adopt safe words.  I don't recommend that myself, but I'm like the only cooperative DD participant over there, so I don't want to be disrespectful or criticize them over those differences.  Instead, I focus on what I have in common with them.  If you are doing any disciplinary spanking, then I highly recommend that you examine ways of creating rules and structure to guide and regulate the process.  I think that is the biggest contribution of traditional DD to this topic.  Also, they seem more inclined to use written agreements to document consent and mutual understanding.  I will admit, I did not attempt such a thing with my wife as it seemed unnecessary and, frankly, a bit awkward, but on the other hand, I could see the usefulness of it in fostering discussion and a meeting of the minds, so to speak.

 

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2 minutes ago, Rand E said:

I know there are some DD folks on the SN forum here, but the attitudes over there on that DD forum concerning safety and safe words is, I think, a bit different than advice you would get here.  I think one big difference is that DD is mainly practiced by long-term or married couples.  On average, the folks there have less to worry about as far as having multiple partners, frequent new partners, and all the stranger danger issues to contend with when meeting new DD partners.  So, on average, the DD couples know each other pretty well, often for years, and I can tell you from my experience, consent issues pretty much disappear once you and your partner can read each other like an open book.  So, my impression is that the DD folks tend to worry less about consent and often don't adopt safe words.  I don't recommend that myself, but I'm like the only cooperative DD participant over there, so I don't want to be disrespectful or criticize them over those differences.  Instead, I focus on what I have in common with them.  If you are doing any disciplinary spanking, then I highly recommend that you examine ways of creating rules and structure to guide and regulate the process.  I think that is the biggest contribution of traditional DD to this topic.  Also, they seem more inclined to use written agreements to document consent and mutual understanding.  I will admit, I did not attempt such a thing with my wife as it seemed unnecessary and, frankly, a bit awkward, but on the other hand, I could see the usefulness of it in fostering discussion and a meeting of the minds, so to speak.

 

Agreed. I’m taking information from both forums, analyzing it using my overthinking brain 🤣, and taking what I need while leaving the rest. Some of the arrangements  on both forums would be way too intense for me. 

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On 6/8/2021 at 11:08 PM, AfterGeometry said:

Do you think tears can act as a "safe word" that means the spanking should cease and consent has been revoked?   I know in some DD relationships that a spanking is not a proper spanking unless tears are forthcoming from the EE.   But I could also imagine , especially if you're playing with someone new, that tears could be shocking and nerve wracking for the ER...as in," oh shit, did I go too far?  what have I done?"     In other circumstances, I know some EEs Do Not Cry from a spanking no matter the intensity...they just aren't criers.     Just curious about your thoughts on crying.  

It still affects me when my wife cries.  Whatever angry resolve I had to punish her just melts away and I want to comfort and console her.  That's one aspect where I'm a bit of a softy and not a good disciplinarian.  However, on those occasions where my wife cried, I spoke to her about it later, and she tells me that it is not about the pain, it's about her emotions, and that crying is a release and actually helps her with the process.  So, I try not to let it affect me as far as the actual spanking goes, although, it still affects me.  At least now, though, I don't feel like I'm being a total mean bastard when it happens.  However, when it does happen, I know that something deeper than usual is going on that requires follow-up discussion.  

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