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PS.  I couldn’t erase “Gravano” in the gray box in the quote above, so finally had to give up and leave it, though I tried and tried to erase it.  Just want you to know, Gravano, this message wasn’t directed toward you.  You’ve been helpful to me as I navigate things.

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1 hour ago, SpudStateSpanky said:

 

 

 

Ok, ok.  I’m just trying to learn more and thought my question was in line with the topic being discussed.  I guess it wasn’t.  Sorry I asked.

I said absolutely nothing about your question being out of line or off topic,

In my posts above I have repeatedly made this qualifier, even before you joined the conversation.

I make this qualifier to make it clear that I am not criticizing or judging the style of play of any individual. I am talking about the presence of trauma in fellow spankers. Before they engage in play, or on account of play.

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On 5/11/2021 at 11:58 PM, Chawsee said:

This is an important topic and I'm grateful that you started a thread about it. I have the same questions. How do we handle requests for spankings that seem harsher than necessary? Contrary to popular belief, not all tops want to hurt others. Why do some spankees request this level of play to begin with? What are they getting from it, beside the flood of endorphins? Or is that all they're really getting from it? What if we're topping someone, at their request, to fulfill their spanking desire, and we induce trauma? Is meeting this need for them really helping, or harming?

I don’t have the answer to any of this.

I am sure I now have the question at the heart of what has unsettled me as a spanker since the 1990’s.

It’s clear to me now that I have traumatized people. Not through abuse. But through the natural trauma response of individuals. In particular those coming to this with past traumatic experiences.

What helps and what harms is really at the heart of this. It is a strong moral principal to not harm. And seeing this now— I have to find a way to not do it. Or just walk away from this kink.

I have had a spankee scratch me, or kick. Really by accident. The same things during sex. Or just horsing around. That heals. That’s a boo boo. Trauma changes a person. That I can’t do.

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3 hours ago, SwitchWithMe said:

This isn’t about a person getting their comfort zone pushed with a spanking. Or wanting to try something that stung more than the expected. Or their mentor giving them extra licks, or getting two spankings in a row.

What I have been discussing is just two things.

  • People with bona fide trauma (e.g. PTSD, CPTSD) coming to a spanking situation. How to not harm them.
  • How to not harm others and give them trauma.

I just want to note that EMDR and CBT is the leading treatments for PTSD (CPTSD is not in the DSM-5 currently) and most C-PTSD patients are classified as BPD (borderline personality disorder); DBT treatment for BPD. 

---------

Someone with PTSD; from whatever - might get a trigger or flashback, from a certain style of laughing, speaking, a word phrase, etc- and depending on the severity of the flashback (or trauma experienced); your right; the person might not be able to withdraw consent due to shock.

For me personally, there was a phrase that I learned only AFTER it happened; that it was a trigger. Talked to my therapist and my supportive friend. I decided I wanted to [gently] in a safe space; desensitize myself from the word and meaning it had on me. During the time the phrase was said and I had a traumatic flash back the person had no idea; only when I stopped responding, they realized something was off. This was not a fault of my Dom's or a fault of my own. Now that word doesn't have an affect on me. It was something that was worked up with. With guidance of a therapist (after the fact) with EMDR and then used in everyday setting. 

I do not think it's your job to share your friends trauma though and associate it as your own (re: the party). I know that if I was that person that had a paralyzed shock feeling; that caused me to not be able to use a safe word, and it traumatized me, I wouldn't want my friend going around on forums saying how much it traumatized them that they didn't do anything. Because someone else would be sharing my story, and taking away my ability to share my story, if I wanted it shared - at all. It would honestly make me feel like someone was trying to gain attention off my suffering. 

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On 5/11/2021 at 11:58 PM, Chawsee said:

This is an important topic and I'm grateful that you started a thread about it. I have the same questions. How do we handle requests for spankings that seem harsher than necessary? Contrary to popular belief, not all tops want to hurt others. Why do some spankees request this level of play to begin with? What are they getting from it, beside the flood of endorphins? Or is that all they're really getting from it? What if we're topping someone, at their request, to fulfill their spanking desire, and we induce trauma? Is meeting this need for them really helping, or harming?

You handle it with telling them: no, and spanking them at a much lower intensity and aftercare. Sometimes that might be a no all together with discipline, if you feel there is trauma related and if they are using it as a proxy for harming themselves. Especially, if they aren't seeing a therapist. 

PTSD often has depression paired. Self harm is often linked. If you think about it; they are asking a spanker to proxy harm; as they can't go as far as someone else (or their hope). If this is the sole reason for someone with trauma/ depression to get a spanking; then yes; it's doing more harm than helping. It's an addiction like self harm but by proxy.

However if the EE that has PTSD is managed under care of a therapist and they are stable - and the EE and ER can both talk about why they want what they want, and know, they have trauma responses or might dislocate [this is if they realize it prior] than that door needs to be open and honest. 

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28 minutes ago, Child of Light said:

I do not think it's your job to share your friends trauma though and associate it as your own (re: the party). I know that if I was that person that had a paralyzed shock feeling; that caused me to not be able to use a safe word, and it traumatized me, I wouldn't want my friend going around on forums saying how much it traumatized them that they didn't do anything. Because someone else would be sharing my story, and taking away my ability to share my story, if I wanted it shared - at all. It would honestly make me feel like someone was trying to gain attention off my suffering. 

All legitimate points. Thanks for sharing that. It is something that needs to be said and heard.

My friend knows that I am sharing this narrative. She’s OK with it because we both want to understand. To change, which includes healing. Even if that’s just how we face the world, people in general, if not this spanking thing. She has her own trajectory through the online spanking world as well. 

My friend’s incident didn’t start my concerns about these things. It started in the 1990’s when a girlfriend wanted to engage is extremely violent play. My friend’s incident a few years back did catalyze me. But it was t the beginning.  It brought me to a crisis of faith. That brought me to SN. A a new spanking world got me deep diving, learning, challenging my presumptions.

I do need different language about this.

If I talk about my experience in my own voice— my grief is facing the fact that I have traumatized people. At the very least triggered people’s most darkest experiences. And I have enabled others to do so.

That isn’t about anything that happened with another person. That’s not guilt or trauma about my friend. It’s about me. My own lack of character perhaps? I don’t know. Ethical failure? I had something stuck in my gizzard about this for years. I couldn’t get to the bottom of it. Some part of me asked what am I doing? What is happening?

Really just in this post with contributions by @Chawsee and @gravano do I have I figured out my own situation. I am a cross roads because I can’t harm anyone any more.

Thanks. Your post was clear.

 

.

 

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12 minutes ago, SwitchWithMe said:

At the very least triggered people’s most darkest experiences. And I have enabled others to do so.

We are all here because we have a spanking desire of-some-sort. You could be the voice for those who have anxiety, trauma, and mental health (even physical health) on how to acutely start the conversation on both sides (EE and ER); and advocate for more in-depth speaking before spanking (imho spanking parties would be terrible for someone with anxiety/ trauma) and how to be safe, both physically and emotionally. 

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2 hours ago, Child of Light said:

We are all here because we have a spanking desire of-some-sort. You could be the voice for those who have anxiety, trauma, and mental health (even physical health) on how to acutely start the conversation on both sides (EE and ER); and advocate for more in-depth speaking before spanking (imho spanking parties would be terrible for someone with anxiety/ trauma) and how to be safe, both physically and emotionally. 

I guess that is the direction I am going.

I don’t know how to do this.

At one level, it seems that even discussing this leads to total war. Despite all disclaimers that one is not judging the intensity or style of play of others. There are people in BDSM scenes doing super heavy things. A salut!

On yer another level, it seems spanking could be much more enriching, fun, beneficial and so on if we really understood the role of trauma and how that motivates some people. We could certainly learn to not harm them.

And on yet another level— I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m still facing knowing I’ve harmed others. Not with guilt. I didn’t know. But what is my next step?

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On 5/11/2021 at 11:58 PM, Chawsee said:

This is an important topic and I'm grateful that you started a thread about it. I have the same questions. How do we handle requests for spankings that seem harsher than necessary? Contrary to popular belief, not all tops want to hurt others. Why do some spankees request this level of play to begin with? What are they getting from it, beside the flood of endorphins? Or is that all they're really getting from it? What if we're topping someone, at their request, to fulfill their spanking desire, and we induce trauma? Is meeting this need for them really helping, or harming?

It is like what differentiates what is “legal” from what is “ethical”.

The law draws a very big circle. Just so we’re not killing each other, tearing the place up, taking everyone’s toys. What is ethical draws a much smaller circle, and includes things that are not necessarily illegal. Like cheating on one’s spouse. Lying to one’s parents. Not keeping religious obligations one has assumed.

I think it’s the same with spanking.

The notion that as long as people engage in play that is informed and consensual then there is no problem— that the “law”. We all agree to that so this spanking thing doesn’t become chaos and dangerous.

Choices beyond that are really our own unique ethical and aesthetic decisions. They really don’t need to be accepted or understood by others. We all have our own experiences that inform our choices.

 

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6 hours ago, SwitchWithMe said:

It is like what differentiates what is “legal” from what is “ethical”.

The law draws a very big circle. Just so we’re not killing each other, tearing the place up, taking everyone’s toys. What is ethical draws a much smaller circle, and includes things that are not necessarily illegal. Like cheating on one’s spouse. Lying to one’s parents. Not keeping religious obligations one has assumed.

I think it’s the same with spanking.

The notion that as long as people engage in play that is informed and consensual then there is no problem— that the “law”. We all agree to that so this spanking thing doesn’t become chaos and dangerous.

Choices beyond that are really our own unique ethical and aesthetic decisions. They really don’t need to be accepted or understood by others. We all have our own experiences that inform our choices.

 

That is well stated.  However, I continue to question whether consent is informed if the EE is unaware of the risks of being traumatized.  Since it is almost certainly never going to get litigated, we may never get an answer from the courts.  I thought about making that argument against a pro in court. 

This article describes the state of the law on BDSM consent: https://ncsfreedom.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Consent-and-BDSM-The-State-of-the-Law.pdf

Here is a noteworthy quote: “To date, there is not a single appellate court decision anywhere in this country that has accepted consent as a defense in an assault or abuse prosecution arising from BDSM conduct.” Page 3.

 

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On 5/13/2021 at 11:37 AM, Child of Light said:

You handle it with telling them: no, and spanking them at a much lower intensity and aftercare. Sometimes that might be a no all together with discipline, if you feel there is trauma related and if they are using it as a proxy for harming themselves. Especially, if they aren't seeing a therapist. 

PTSD often has depression paired. Self harm is often linked. If you think about it; they are asking a spanker to proxy harm; as they can't go as far as someone else (or their hope). If this is the sole reason for someone with trauma/ depression to get a spanking; then yes; it's doing more harm than helping. It's an addiction like self harm but by proxy.

However if the EE that has PTSD is managed under care of a therapist and they are stable - and the EE and ER can both talk about why they want what they want, and know, they have trauma responses or might dislocate [this is if they realize it prior] than that door needs to be open and honest. 

Good thoughts, @Child of Light. Your suggestion here is what I've been doing. I've explained to a few good folks why I'm not comfortable with intense sessions, following up my explanation with an offer to spank at a lower intensity. This tends to be met with disappointment. I then feel like a failure, particularly when someone tells me, "Is it me? Do you just not want to spank me? Then why won't you spank me at this level? I've been spanked at this level before by other disciplinarians. I need it that hard." And they may indeed be more than capable of handling it. But I can't stomach the thought of doing that to someone.

My second biggest concern, behind the one I've stated, is that sometimes people don't realize they actually have suppressed trauma that hasn't been dealt with. If there is underlying trauma, I don't want to trigger it and deepen that individual's inner struggle. Also, your explanation of self-harm by proxy was interesting and eye-opening. I hadn't thought of that before.

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7 hours ago, SwitchWithMe said:

It is like what differentiates what is “legal” from what is “ethical”.

The law draws a very big circle. Just so we’re not killing each other, tearing the place up, taking everyone’s toys. What is ethical draws a much smaller circle, and includes things that are not necessarily illegal. Like cheating on one’s spouse. Lying to one’s parents. Not keeping religious obligations one has assumed.

I think it’s the same with spanking.

The notion that as long as people engage in play that is informed and consensual then there is no problem— that the “law”. We all agree to that so this spanking thing doesn’t become chaos and dangerous.

Choices beyond that are really our own unique ethical and aesthetic decisions. They really don’t need to be accepted or understood by others. We all have our own experiences that inform our choices.

True, then there is the line to be drawn between the legal and ethical. You mentioned in a previous post the need to "do no harm." That's paramount. Good thought!

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Wow, this was a heavy read.  The darkness, pain and trauma associated with spanking that looms over this thread is such a contrast to the light-hearted frivolous butt-smackin' fun that can be found elsewhere on this forum.  These two realities are so far apart from each other that it is boggling my mind right now that we can communicate as well as we do with each other given the varied and complicated ways we all end up here.  Ugh  I have no idea what my actual point is right now other than amazement that we do as well as we do with such a varied and complex shared interest.    

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1 minute ago, AfterGeometry said:

Wow, this was a heavy read.  The darkness, pain and trauma associated with spanking that looms over this thread is such a contrast to the light-hearted frivolous butt-smackin' fun that can be found elsewhere on this forum.  These two realities are so far apart from each other that it is boggling my mind right now that we can communicate as well as we do with each other given the varied and complicated ways we all end up here.  Ugh  I have no idea what my actual point is right now other than amazement that we do as well as we do with such a varied and complex shared interest.    

Well, I ‘d say— we actually do a fantastic job, in general, communicating our interests, needs, and so on. Making this all safe and consensual. I have had mostly fun, playfulness, and meaningful psycho-drama with this. No regrets with any of it. It’s been part of many of my most rewarding relationships. Going on 30+ years now.

But when it’s bad, it’s been bad. Really bad. Which isn’t a criticism on all the good stuff. Just something to think about. I am just one of the people thinking about this now. Which is fair. No regrets there.

I normally would share my thoughts and feelings on this subject, but several people have encouraged me to. The intention isn’t to piss in everyone’s soup. But it seems to be a thing some small number of people a struggling with. Talking with a bunch of people here and in real life, I’m a few turns from getting my mind around it all. 

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59 minutes ago, gravano said:

That is well stated.  However, I continue to question whether consent is informed if the EE is unaware of the risks of being traumatized.  Since it is almost certainly never going to get litigated, we may never get an answer from the courts.  I thought about making that argument against a pro in court. 

This article describes the state of the law on BDSM consent: https://ncsfreedom.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Consent-and-BDSM-The-State-of-the-Law.pdf

Here is a noteworthy quote: “To date, there is not a single appellate court decision anywhere in this country that has accepted consent as a defense in an assault or abuse prosecution arising from BDSM conduct.” Page 3.

@gravano- Excellent resource! I bookmarked it. Thank you!!

"According to the law, the nature of the criminal offense here is that one person causes physical harm— injury and/or intense pain—to another person. It is important to understand that the law sees this as causing harm, not engaging in mutually beneficial conduct. This means that the law treats BDSM as violence, not as sex. That explains why the issue of consent is different in BDSM cases than in rape cases. In a rape case, the sex act is not viewed as criminal unless it can be shown that one party did not consent. In a BDSM case, however, the causing of physical harm is, in and of itself, criminal. The question is whether and to what extent the law will allow such criminal conduct to be excused by the fact that the participant consented to have the acts done to them" (p. 1).

The whole document is educational. Page 3 is quite enlightening, too. 

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@gravanoYou have obviously done a lot of work on this and I do appreciate your transparency and willingness to share.

You make an important distinction for me: consent versus informed consent.

In a nutshell, that is really what I have been grappling with— for years really. Back to the 1990’s. Making that consent as informed as possible. What that means about the play, and what it means about the relationships I have. How the “informed” part can best occur.

 

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14 minutes ago, AfterGeometry said:

Wow, this was a heavy read.  The darkness, pain and trauma associated with spanking that looms over this thread is such a contrast to the light-hearted frivolous butt-smackin' fun that can be found elsewhere on this forum.  These two realities are so far apart from each other that it is boggling my mind right now that we can communicate as well as we do with each other given the varied and complicated ways we all end up here.  Ugh  I have no idea what my actual point is right now other than amazement that we do as well as we do with such a varied and complex shared interest.    

I understand well the "light-hearted frivolous butt-smackin' fun" you speak of. That's the kind of spanking play that I favor. Unfortunately, there is the other side of "this thing we do," the side where spanking crosses the line into abuse, induces trauma, or triggers pre-existing trauma. Not everyone experiences this other side (thank God!), but some do, and it's a topic that a few of us want to be educated on. I don't think the intention here is to cast a dark cloud of gloom over anyone's spanking fun. We're just trying to clarify where we stand-- and talking this out helps us do that-- so that we can soldier on with integrity, to keep safe those who entrust us with their minds and bodies.

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5 minutes ago, Chawsee said:

I understand well the "light-hearted frivolous butt-smackin' fun" you speak of. That's the kind of spanking play that I favor. Unfortunately, there is the other side of "this thing we do," the side where spanking crosses the line into abuse, induces trauma, or triggers pre-existing trauma. Not everyone experiences this other side (thank God!), but some do, and it's a topic that a few of us want to be educated on. I don't think the intention here is to cast a dark cloud of gloom over anyone's spanking fun. We're just trying to clarify where we stand-- and talking this out helps us do that-- so that we can soldier on with integrity, to keep safe those who entrust us with their minds and bodies.

I saw spanking as “light-hearted butt-smacking fun” until I encountered DD.  To be honest my experience with this site is that it looks down on the light-hearted stuff and focuses on intense and punitive spanking that is anything but “fun,” except for some ERs who glibly and cavalierly refer to the suffering they inflict and the distress it causes.  

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@gravanoOne of the things I found networking for meets here was how severe the expectations of play were. Maybe that is a type of bravado in chat, I don’t know. But I think some of the chats were sincere. Ma’am. If I do that to you— you’ll be in the ER and I’ll be in a small room with a camera talking to police. Beat me daily, as hard as you want, as long as you can. It has been chilling.

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2 minutes ago, gravano said:

I saw spanking as “light-hearted butt-smacking fun” until I encountered DD.  To be honest my experience with this site is that it looks down on the light-hearted stuff and focuses on intense and punitive spanking that is anything but “fun,” except for some ERs who glibly and cavalierly refer to the suffering they inflict and the distress it causes.  

Yes, I see this too. There is the erotic section, which is appreciated, and some fellow members are inclined this way, as we are. But there does seem to be a lot of commentary against the gentler side of spanking. We've all read the posts of those who sneer at anything erotic, pleasurable, fun, or even the use of a safe-word. It seems to be bragging rites to exclaim, "For me, spanking is not at all pleasurable. It's all about punishment." 

The SN homepage states: 

"Though we do not host or allow pornographic content and are not a fetish or kink site, we have chosen to restrict this site to adults to allow for more open discussions; and for the protection of minors since we do provide contacts to adults who provide corporal punishment therapy services."  

We're tolerated, but our style is not what this site is about. :) 

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On 5/11/2021 at 10:31 AM, SwitchWithMe said:

Something I’ve been having to think about is how trauma and spanking intersect. And to what extent my personal values make me responsible for negotiating this intersection. I really don’t ascribe to the view that if my spankee and I come up with an agreement, then I can do what I want to them. They agreed after all. That’s consent. Right?

Well. No. Not for me. I have been called out as being weak and half a man in this regard. But I really can’t just look at obtaining consent as a license. License to do as I like within that verbal contract. In part this conviction comes from the experience I’ve shared where a friend was injured in a scene. The defense was that consent was honored. She was unconscious, but hey, she didn’t say the safe word. So it was all copacetic.

I can’t do that. If that makes me an outsider or a mutant, to some, so be it. I err on the side of humanity, not the rules of a game I make up with another.

But it’s more than that.

It’s become clear to me that I have spanked (and chatted with) quite a few people who have, in fact, been suffering trauma.

In some cases trauma received during in the course of this spanking kink as adults. I others cases trauma from childhood spanking experiences. Sometimes yet other traumas. I am forever shocked by experiences shared with me.

It damn breaks my heart.

I have to say it does more than break my heart when I see people enduring trauma responses again and again. This isn’t a judgement of the play that people engage in. I like belts, so obviously I am open to hard spanking. I’m talking about nightmares. Dissociation. Not “bratting” but visceral fighting for one’s life. Losing control of one’s bladder. Isolation. Depression.

But hey. That’s also a lot of people. Many people cope with traumas precisely through power play or impact play. By flooding themselves with endorphins. By reliving abuse in a controlled way. I have to admit my own spanking interests have an uncanny template based on home experiences. This seems to be healthy and adaptive in some ways. 

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not coming to this from a space of beating people raw. Quite the contrary. One friend comes to mind. A half dozen smacks with the hand over my knee and I notice she is “not there”, but trembling. I right her up. She’s trembling, unable to talk. Lost in some flashback. Or something. Some pain I’ll never know. No. Not sub space. A crisis. We talk about this. She went to a dark place.

And I often encounter spankers who are fixated on what seems to be inflicting not just the most pain, but the most trauma they can give. That was the person who hurt my friend. 

I am reevaluating this spanking thing. Really after my friend’s injury. She’s traumatized now. Deeply broken. And the dude who hurt her had his own issues. And now my own. I am damaged and I am just some prick looking in the windows.

I am wondering about to what extent I can have trauma and spanking overlap. I certainly don’t want to inflict trauma on someone. Do I want to trigger trauma in someone? Even if that is what they “want”? Is that doing a dead one a solid? 

Thanks for sharing.  As an ee my biggest thing is to have someone I can trust.  I can't trust guys in that role so I'm inclined to females - especially more maternal types.  But I do think the female er needs to be pretty level headed and not suffering from trauma herself.  But I need that trust, 100% trust, and it's so hard to find with people in these groups, especially once opening up and trying to cross a trust barrier.

As far as your friend goes, the best thing you can be is her friend.  It sounds like that other guy totally abused her.  These ee's, especially female ee's, and even moreso female ee's who are dealing with a lot mentally need to be sooooo careful.  I think it's good you're evaluating your roll in this lifestyle, but you can be someone who makes a difference, so keep an open mind.  

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So maybe we can say the site tilts a bit dark.   I mean it would have to if the playful, erotic (more -mainstream-) side of spanking is de-emphasized or at least not actively promoted.   I am not saying that then leaves us with the "problematic" component...but it does leave us with folks coming here with inherently more complex psychological histories & experiences best treated by psych professionals and not random "ERs" , some of whom can smell the naivete and eagerness oozing from the place and see easy pickens.   

 And that leads into the whole question if this forum would be best served if it was a strictly "EE -only" forum.   This place is -fantastic- as a place for EEs to feel safe and learn from each other.  What is more questionable is the role ERs play here, and if in the grand scheme of things they do more harm than good.   And I always get pushback from this notion but do Spankers really have "Spanking Needs" that are best met thru this forum???   

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29 minutes ago, AfterGeometry said:

So maybe we can say the site tilts a bit dark.   I mean it would have to if the playful, erotic (more -mainstream-) side of spanking is de-emphasized or at least not actively promoted.   I am not saying that then leaves us with the "problematic" component...but it does leave us with folks coming here with inherently more complex psychological histories & experiences best treated by psych professionals and not random "ERs" , some of whom can smell the naivete and eagerness oozing from the place and see easy pickens.   

 And that leads into the whole question if this forum would be best served if it was a strictly "EE -only" forum.   This place is -fantastic- as a place for EEs to feel safe and learn from each other.  What is more questionable is the role ERs play here, and if in the grand scheme of things they do more harm than good.   And I always get pushback from this notion but do Spankers really have "Spanking Needs" that are best met thru this forum???   

A lot of fascinating insights here.

As a switch, I do have radically different types of conversations with EE’s and ER’s depending upon how I’m relating to them. As a fellow EE/ER, or as a theoretical spanking mate. It is all new to me as I am used to playing with people I know very well. But I think there really are different categories of needs and concerns for EE’s and ER’s.

I have often expressed to others here that my EE side, the rare times it comes up, is a need, why my ER side is more of an interest, a passion. 

Maybe the non harming re trauma I am interested is less a thing for an ER to figure out with an EE. Maybe it is a thing for an EE openly dialoging for a period of time with very experienced EE’s?

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2 hours ago, Chawsee said:

Good thoughts, @Child of Light. Your suggestion here is what I've been doing. I've explained to a few good folks why I'm not comfortable with intense sessions, following up my explanation with an offer to spank at a lower intensity. This tends to be met with disappointment. I then feel like a failure, particularly when someone tells me, "Is it me? Do you just not want to spank me? Then why won't you spank me at this level? I've been spanked at this level before by other disciplinarians. I need it that hard." And they may indeed be more than capable of handling it. But I can't stomach the thought of doing that to someone.

My second biggest concern, behind the one I've stated, is that sometimes people don't realize they actually have suppressed trauma that hasn't been dealt with. If there is underlying trauma, I don't want to trigger it and deepen that individual's inner struggle. Also, your explanation of self-harm by proxy was interesting and eye-opening. I hadn't thought of that before.

If there is underlying trauma found; and it’s brought up, it can be dealt with by a therapist (or professional); buried trauma is never good. And honestly in my opinion sometimes a crisis needs to happen for someone to worm through unresolved issues.

I think you’d also be able to identify a crisis by having a EE write honest accounts and reflections on their behavior and sessions. And express how they feel - etc with 100% honesty. Self worth and noted comments about worthlessness would be a key in note, that a pause might be needed. 

It wouldn’t be your fault that they unsuppressed those during a session. In all honesty, when all said and done and they get the proper help they need, a lot of relief is formed.   

Both peoples comfort levels need to be met; for sure. And you’ll know someone’s pain tolerance after a couple of years in a dynamic with them.

I unfortunately have a extremely high pain tolerance - because I experience physical pain 24/7; sometimes a spanking, literally is just a break from the chronic pain I feel. And for a more disciplinary session, It needs to go a bit beyond that (typically due to that I’ll have non physical approaches with discipline to meet the higher needs).  

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33 minutes ago, Child of Light said:

If there is underlying trauma found; and it’s brought up, it can be dealt with by a therapist (or professional); buried trauma is never good. And honestly in my opinion sometimes a crisis needs to happen for someone to worm through unresolved issues.

I think you’d also be able to identify a crisis by having a EE write honest accounts and reflections on their behavior and sessions. And express how they feel - etc with 100% honesty. Self worth and noted comments about worthlessness would be a key in note, that a pause might be needed. 

It wouldn’t be your fault that they unsuppressed those during a session. In all honesty, when all said and done and they get the proper help they need, a lot of relief is formed.   

Both peoples comfort levels need to be met; for sure. And you’ll know someone’s pain tolerance after a couple of years in a dynamic with them.

I unfortunately have a extremely high pain tolerance - because I experience physical pain 24/7; sometimes a spanking, literally is just a break from the chronic pain I feel. And for a more disciplinary session, It needs to go a bit beyond that (typically due to that I’ll have non physical approaches with discipline to meet the higher needs).  

Thank you for these insights. You have come at this from different angles that I hadn't considered before, which is most helpful. 

I'm very sorry that you endure chronic pain 24/7. That's heartbreaking for someone so young, bright, and insightful.

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