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Safewords, yes or no?


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4 hours ago, AfterGeometry said:

Yeah, I dunno about safewords.  It would seem like we should just be able to communicate normally and sort of read each other's vibes. If she has an issue with the spanking, she could just tell me.  That, or I would be able to sense that something is askew by reading her body language.  Normal communication would seem to be a more natural, fluid way of alerting me to some problem or issue.  Suddenly yelling out "Cucumber!" or "Yellow!" would actually be more disconcerting and jarring in the heat of the moment.    

I think in the middle of an intense spanking, especially if there is counting and questions to answer, it can be very hard to get out "please stop, I need to adjust my arm, my hand is going numb, we need to retie the ropes".  The one time I used yellow I was in "diaper position" on a table with my legs tied to a rope over the rafters.  He used a new paddle and When it hit I yelled ouch, and reflexively tried to bend my knees and roll away at the same time.  I pulled so hard I felt a twinge in my knee and managed to synch the ropes up super tight on my ankles.  I actually stretched the rope.  I was out of breath and knew i couldn't stay like that and another hit was going tonland and I would potentially really injure myself.  "Wow, OUCH!, Yellow!"  The next hit did not come.  He checked on me.  Made sure I was ok.  I didn't have time or breath to try and convince him I was serious in between swats.  

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A few comments: 1. Effectively these are safewords. 2. As to "consensual non-consent" there isn't such a thing legally.  It can always be withdrawn.  I would not advise anyone to

NOOOOO, we CANNOT have you getting away with THAT!!! Your detailed confession is therefore MOST appreciated and will be duly noted!  But laughing aside, you're right, StrictGent. A safe-word is es

AG is right, pretty much, in that (imo) a spanker should be able to read their partner's body language and adjust accordingly. But there will be instances where either spanker or spankee are inexperie

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AG is right, pretty much, in that (imo) a spanker should be able to read their partner's body language and adjust accordingly. But there will be instances where either spanker or spankee are inexperienced, overly vocal, underly (?!) vocal, or otherwise not in synch enough to make sure all' well all the time. In my 30 years of playing I've never deployed a safeword, as spanker or spankee, but just knowing one is in place is an emotional safety blanket.

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The first thing I think about is punishment. You are deign spanked for your bad behavior. As a child they do not have “safe words “ you need to know your spanker and he need to know you and what you can handle so when you are over his knee he has total control over you. I don’t use safe work and I get the spanking I deserve. 

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I think maybe if people are really experienced with heavier implements ( eg paddles, straps, canes etc ) then maybe safe words can be put to one side but I think especially for newbies they really are a must. Unless it's the most basic of hand spankings really. It's all very well saying that a good spanker will be in tune with the 'ee - that doesn't take into account poor technique or a lack of safety awareness. I remember reading something Lady Pandora ( an English disciplinarian ) said once - "A cane or paddle if wielded incorrectly can kill ...) - I think in balance that whatever the reason for spanking there needs to be a way of stopping/slowing the session if need be. 

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A ton of clarifications are always discussed before I even arrange for a public meet. I don't object to a safe word in place. However, I don't encourage its use either. I make initial adjustments & allowances thru the first few mtgs until there is a level of trust established. Reasonable positions are coordinated, one young lady had vertigo so naturally there were adjustment exceptions made.

I am always In Tune & Focused with my Full, undivided attention to the Matter at Hand 😁, so I have never once had a safe word used in over 13 yrs online. 
Exception to the rule is, of course, for any medical consideration.

And it goes without saying that if & when a safe word is to be used, it is expected to be Justified

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6 hours ago, MrBottoms said:

A ton of clarifications are always discussed before I even arrange for a public meet. I don't object to a safe word in place. However, I don't encourage its use either. I make initial adjustments & allowances thru the first few mtgs until there is a level of trust established. Reasonable positions are coordinated, one young lady had vertigo so naturally there were adjustment exceptions made.

I am always In Tune & Focused with my Full, undivided attention to the Matter at Hand 😁, so I have never once had a safe word used in over 13 yrs online. 
Exception to the rule is, of course, for any medical consideration.

And it goes without saying that if & when a safe word is to be used, it is expected to be Justified

This is exactly how we handle safe words.  I even wrote it into our contract that if no safeword during a punishment it had better be for safety reasons.  If i were to  spank someone who didn't want a safe word, then I would consider any struggle to get away or words like "no" and "stop" to be a revocation of consent.  The only case might be in cnc or a TPE but I would still expect them.not to ask me to stop unless they meant it

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1 hour ago, Megthe said:

  If i were to  spank someone who didn't want a safe word, then I would consider any struggle to get away or words like "no" and "stop" to be a revocation of consent.  

Precisely. I have stopped early on many occasions b/c either physical or emotional limits, or both, had been reached. Not b/c I wanted to stop.  If it wasn't enough to get sufficient attention, then we simply go another round, but another time. 😁

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I have never used a safe word. I only play hard with people I trust so I have never felt a need for one. I like "CNC" and a safeword would render that arrangement meaningless.

It's upto every individual to decide if they want a safe word and there is no right or wrong answer...

 

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19 minutes ago, AfterGeometry said:

WHAT Is CNC , sassylittle ??  AG has never heard of it.  

Consensual non consent. AG needs to read up a bit😛

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30 minutes ago, sassylittle said:

Consensual non consent. AG needs to read up a bit😛

OH YEAH!  I know what that means, I just wasn't used to the abbreviation.  😝

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I think safe words are good for people to feel safe; especially if something goes wrong. I would not say they are dumb in the slightest. However I would never personally use a safe word myself. Because of the fact that I will only be spanked by those I trust, they know my medical needs, they know how I react if I'm having an medical issue, and if I just say 'help' or 'something wrong' or 'please pause' -- the spanking will pause, they'll address if I'm ok and if something needs to be sorted to safety spank me. Sometimes that means taking a small break and having some water. 

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A few comments:

1.

4 hours ago, Child of Light said:

I think safe words are good for people to feel safe; especially if something goes wrong. I would not say they are dumb in the slightest. However I would never personally use a safe word myself. Because of the fact that I will only be spanked by those I trust, they know my medical needs, they know how I react if I'm having an medical issue, and if I just say 'help' or 'something wrong' or 'please pause' -- the spanking will pause, they'll address if I'm ok and if something needs to be sorted to safety spank me. Sometimes that means taking a small break and having some water. 

Effectively these are safewords.

2.

As to "consensual non-consent" there isn't such a thing legally.  It can always be withdrawn.  I would not advise anyone to test the limits of the criminal law on this.

3.

Leaving the previous point aside, I am having a great deal of trouble seeing the downside to the existence of such an arrrangement. If it is never used, fine.  Just like the airbag in my car.  There has never been one deployed in my decades of driving experience and I hope it will never happen, but It's hard to argue that it shouldn't be there.

                                                                                                                 -Ex.

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I myself have kind of always thought of the safe word associated with BDSM environments, You know like the stuff seen on line and such, The kinds of environments that i am to chicken to be found near such a place. But have always {and probably not wisely}  just associated safe words with environments where folks are not playing with trusted caring caring individuals.

But with a domestic discipline environment it seems to me that a safe word is almost like topping from the bottom, If thats the correct way of putting it, it's not totally submission anymore if I have a way to put a halt on the spanking.

Barbara-drafts a liknes of her and my wife and a very embassedyoung husband.jpg

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On 8/8/2020 at 3:37 PM, RedKnight said:

What are some good safe-words that people use? It would need to be easy to remember in the middle of possible intense pain.

My wife and I used to use the customary yellow and red as safe words.  But then we saw Family Guy safe word is banana episode.  So we changed yellow to banana.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h8WKITybac&feature=emb_logo  

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On 8/22/2020 at 11:39 AM, Child of Light said:

I think safe words are good for people to feel safe; especially if something goes wrong. I would not say they are dumb in the slightest. However I would never personally use a safe word myself. Because of the fact that I will only be spanked by those I trust, they know my medical needs, they know how I react if I'm having an medical issue, and if I just say 'help' or 'something wrong' or 'please pause' -- the spanking will pause, they'll address if I'm ok and if something needs to be sorted to safety spank me. Sometimes that means taking a small break and having some water. 

So, basically,  "help, something wrong  and please pause" are your safe words. 

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On 8/22/2020 at 3:50 PM, Explorify said:

A few comments:

1.

Effectively these are safewords.

2.

As to "consensual non-consent" there isn't such a thing legally.  It can always be withdrawn.  I would not advise anyone to test the limits of the criminal law on this.

3.

Leaving the previous point aside, I am having a great deal of trouble seeing the downside to the existence of such an arrrangement. If it is never used, fine.  Just like the airbag in my car.  There has never been one deployed in my decades of driving experience and I hope it will never happen, but It's hard to argue that it shouldn't be there.

                                                                                                                 -Ex.

Exactly! Ultimately EEs have final say with their bodies, period!  Also, safewords are just as much for ERs. I can't imagine anyone playing without them. 

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My wife and I have safe words, but I'm having trouble recalling ever having to resort to them.  Unless you are role-playing where you want to be able to say anything for the sake of the role and not really mean it - "Oh cruel master, stop, please, have mercy...." and so forth - then "stop" just means ..... "STOP".  Just thinking back, even with safe words, we usually wound up just saying "that's too tight" or "that's too hard" or whatever, and usually, by the tone of voice, you can tell whether it is serious or drama.  However, it's nice to have an unambiguous signal no matter what, so I don't see the drawback.  Whatever else safe words are good for, or not good for, they pretty much eliminate any doubt whether the activity is consensual.    

 

 

    

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On 8/16/2020 at 11:47 AM, momma_s_boy said:

there is a means to ensure that the spankee does not have a heart attack during the spanking.

No actually. There is not.

On 8/16/2020 at 11:47 AM, momma_s_boy said:

 A spankee buys a heart and lung monitor. The Spanker holds the wrist of hand the monitor is on and places him in a corner when the monitor reaches 125. When it goes down to below 90 He/She can continue  with the punishment.  

A heart attack can and does often occur with the heart rate in normal range (60-100) so monitoring the HR ( heart rate) will not prevent a heart attack. IF YOUR EE SAYS THEY'RE HAVING A HEART ATTACK, LISTEN!

On 8/16/2020 at 11:47 AM, momma_s_boy said:

This way the Spanker does not listen loose the His/Her authority, still be compassionate about the one He/She leads, nor worry if the spankee is just trying to stop it because the spankee wants to safe word out because of pain.

Since the ee has the final power/authority with their body,, they can withdraw consent at any time for any reason they want.  

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On 10/22/2020 at 11:32 PM, michgal.k said:

No actually. There is not.

A heart attack can and does often occur with the heart rate in normal range (60-100) so monitoring the HR ( heart rate) will not prevent a heart attack. IF YOUR EE SAYS THEY'RE HAVING A HEART ATTACK, LISTEN!

Since the ee has the final power/authority with their body,, they can withdraw consent at any time for any reason they want.  

i thank you for the post. I was thinking of myself in the situation...   I know that i would safe word out. A punishment or as a means to remain sober I would not benefit from a safe word.  I am open with my Cardiologist. She was the one who suggest the oxygen and heart monitor,. I suffer from Empyema and after a STEMI event with only half of my heart not working.  withdraw consent at any time for any reason during Spanking Therapy would not benefit me in my sobriety. i presently have to pay a Disciplinarian which is difficult living on  less than $800. a month. 

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Except if there's restraint involved (and I'm really not into restraint), none for me thanks. 

For me, a huge part of being spanked is surrender.  I get to decided whether or not you get to spank me.  How hard, how long are your decisions. Sure, I get to communicate along the way. And sure, you need to listen.  But I don't get to control it.  If I utter "yellow", you're kind of obliged to change what you're doing. If I tell you that it's really hurting and I need you to slow down for a minute it becomes your call.  

An unrestrained EE can always get up and leave. And, if he or she isn't being respected, he or she should.

 

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17 hours ago, Keith Lemontree said:

Except if there's restraint involved (and I'm really not into restraint), none for me thanks. 

 

The only time that I might use a restraint is if the spankee just can't hold still for the spanking. Than I would restrain them, so that I don't accidentally hit somewhere I don't want to hit. Then a safe word would be important. I do prefer not using restraints I like complete submissiveness, the restraint would only be for her/his protection.

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On 8/16/2020 at 10:25 AM, Chawsee said:

I absolutely believe in safe-word use. When men explain to me what they're seeking, the most common request I get is "a serious, no-nonsense paddling" without a safe-word, to make the spanking as "authentic" as possible. Is there an unspoken belief that having a safe-word in place is cowardly? Or a feeling of excitement at having this power switch removed?

Please keep in mind that a contentious spanker already has an incredibly focused job of monitoring your movements, muscle contractions, breathing, and vocalizations-- while simultaneously landing each swat of our implement(s) with precision. So it increases the spanker's responsibility even more to have to perform without a safety net. Once we've had a few sessions with a partner and are in-synch with them, then yes, removing the safe-word can be fine, if both parties are comfortable with it.

However, what if a spankee started to have a heart attack during a session? I personally know of two younger men who died of heart attacks, one at 38 and the other at 44. We pray these kinds of scenarios never happen-- and hopefully they never do-- but what if an emergency suddenly arrises and you've instructed your spanker to ignore your pleas to stop? Or what if the session is more than you bargained for, as @ukspanko described upthread. I truly urge spankees to not be so quick to dispense with the safe-word. 

If that happens, the ER may be charged with manslaughter.  Some states do not allow consent as a defense to the type of “assault” people engage in here.  If consent is allowed, it is an affirmative defense, which means the defendant has to come forward with evidence of it.  Consent also has to be informed, and it could be argued that if you were not advised of the risk of death, the alleged consent was not informed. 
 

Where consent is allowed as an affirmative defense, you cannot it waive your right to withdraw it, which means that a “CNC” has no legal effect. If someone says “stop” or “I withdraw consent,” the ‘ER proceeds at her peril notwithstanding any such agreement to the contrary.  

 

 

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On 8/8/2020 at 10:51 AM, DougK said:

I don't think safewords are a must, but I also don't think they're worthless. Here's a very long post on the subject that I wrote over 15 years ago, but I this is still dead on. This post was directed to DD relationships, but I think the same reasoning applies to other spanking situations:

The use of safewords is a complicated issue, in my opinion. Many people think a couple should always have a safeword, but many others feel like an important part of the trust and submission involved in DD is the acceptance of spanking without a safeword. Personally, I've come around to the point of view that ultimately it doesn't really much matter in practice whether a safeword exists or not.

On the one hand, safewords are not nearly as big a protection as is sometimes asserted, for a variety of reasons. If the purpose is to give safety when you don't fully trust a spanker and fear he may be unscrupulous, I don't quite understand how that works -- if he's unscrupulous enough to go beyond agreed-upon limits, isn't he equally likely to ignore a safeword? In the more common case, the point isn't to protect against an unscrupulous spanker, but instead to allow communication of something the spanker doesn't see or understand. While that's fine so far as it goes, there are a lot of reasons it often doesn't work. If the spankee is really in distress for some reason, she may well not be able to say the safeword. Even if she can, almost every woman I've ever talked to has been extremely reluctant to actually use a safeword -- to many it feels like admitting failure of some sort, even though that's not the intent. In other instances, the safeword comes too late to be of much use -- the spankee doesn't become aware of the problem until it's already happened. To use a very extreme example, suppose a spanker is using a heavy paddle, and accidentally strikes too high and hits the tailbone, bruising or even breaking it. Saying a safeword at that point doesn't help much since the damage is already done. For these reasons, the spanker still has to be very aware and careful at all times how he is spanking, and how the spankee is reacting, both verbally and nonverbally. Assuming that everything is fine as long as the spankee doesn't use a safeword can be a very big mistake...

On the other hand, I don't think having a safeword automatically changes the dynamics of the DD relationship and is equivalent to "topping from the bottom". While that may be true in an erotic setting where the couple agrees on a red/yellow/green (stop/ease up/continue) scheme to control intensity, I don't think it's true in a DD setting where the safeword is intended only to signal when something unexpected has happened. A couple can arrange it so that misuse of a safeword doesn't have any real benefit, and may itself be a punishable offense. As such, a safeword isn't the spankee's way of controlling the spanking, it's just a method of communicating important information to the spanker, and can even be viewed as the duty of the spankee, as part of making the spanking a cooperative effort to improve behavior.

On a third hand, I think those who profess not to use safewords are largely kidding themselves. After all, is any half-way responsible spanker going to ignore a frantic "Yeowch! You broke my tailbone!!" just because the couple doesn't have a safeword? Particularly when just starting a relationship, a spanker would have to be crazy to ignore unexpected protestations or movements -- it's probably safe to ignore squirming and "Please stop," but I sure wouldn't ignore a concerted effort to get away coupled with "If you don't stop this instant, I'm going to call the cops!" Heck, even if a safeword DOES exist, I think the spanker in a new couple would be foolish to ignore such a statement just because the spankee didn't say "safeword." At a lower level, why would a spanker ignore a statement like "Stop for a minute and empty your pockets; your keys are digging into me" or "Hold on -- I've got a cramp in my leg"? Of course, I'm assuming that a responsible spankee won't make these things up, but that's just the same as assuming the spankee won't inappropriately use a safeword.

Having said all that, I'll admit to requiring a safeword when I'm disciplining a woman I haven't dealt with before or frequently, even though I'm not convinced it's all that useful to protect her. I think there's a little value in having a safeword to protect me, as the spanker. Although this is rarely discussed, I think it's important for people to keep in mind that anytime a spanking is given, the spanker is opening himself to both civil and criminal liability in most states -- spanking fits almost any definition of assault and/or battery. So when meeting a new woman, there's always the chance that if things go badly for whatever reason she may decide to call the cops or a lawyer. Although the consent of the "victim" is largely immaterial in the eyes of the law -- I'm still guilty of assault even if the woman asked for the spanking -- as a practical matter I believe that I'm in a better position if I can show that the entire spanking was consensual, and the presence of a safeword helps there. Although if the woman is really out to get me, there's no way for me to prevent her claiming she used her safeword and I ignored it... I sincerely hope this concern will always remain hypothetical, but it's something for spankers to keep in the back of their mind. For that matter, spankees should understand it's another reason why some spankers may be reluctant to be as firm as desired; there may be a fear, either conscious or subconscious, that if he really hurts her she's going to call the cops.

Another factor in favor of safewords is a little paradoxical -- the existence of a safeword, which some fear may result in the spankee ending a spanking earlier than really wanted, may instead have the effect of enabling a more severe spanking. Without a safeword, a reasonably responsible spanker is likely to err on the side of caution, and spank less severely than desired. After all, it's a lot easier to correct that next time by spanking harder than it is to make up for a too-hard spanking that leaves the spankee feeling unfairly treated or even abused. The existence of a safeword may give the spanker confidence to go further, knowing that the safeword will keep him from going *too* far over the line.

Finally, all of this is largely theoretical. In practice, although I know people that have safewords, I don't think I know of any instances in a disciplinary setting in which the spankee has actually used that safeword. The fact is, most spankers and spankees, especially in DD, are pretty responsible, and unexpected situations (such as cramps) are pretty uncommon, so the need for safewords doesn't actually arise.

 

I have experienced the paradox.  About 10 years ago, a pro kept asking me if I was going to use it, and when I didn’t she took it as a sign that she hadn’t “won” or “broken me” and really beat the shit out of me.  It was just supposed to be a role play.  

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