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AfterGeometry

Viewable IP Addresses

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I think as we see more users with multiple accounts going by various personas, it would help tremendously if a user's IP address/IP location  could be viewable by everybody.  This is a normal feature in some forums/chatrooms I have used, and could help us more quickly identify troublesome users with fake personas and increase overall transparency.   It should also cut down on requests for the Moderators to investigate suspected accounts...so I look at it as a Win-Win for everybody.     

I know it won't solve all of our problems as people can spoof IP addresses and use VPN's, etc.  but it should cut down on the low-hanging fruit and make the chatroom experience more easy-going for everybody.  It would do a lot to cut down on the -drama- anyway...which I am sure is as tiresome to the mods as it is to the users.   :)

(P.S. One handy spot to display this information might be on the Online Users page...only the folks online at that moment will have their IP Address/IP Location displayed.)

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I am completely opposed to this. I realize that an IP address cannot Pin Me Down to a precise location, but it can give out my general location to people that don't need it. 

If you can find a location, combined with the things I talk about in chat, it would be much easier to hunt me down. I'm not comfortable with that. I have no problem with the admins having my IP address. To be honest, most of you know enough about me that it wouldn't be a problem. But I certainly don't trust everyone on this site to use that information responsibly.

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6 minutes ago, gingerlee said:

I am completely opposed to this. I realize that an IP address cannot Pin Me Down to a precise location, but it can give out my general location to people that don't need it. 

If you can find a location, combined with the things I talk about in chat, it would be much easier to hunt me down. I'm not comfortable with that. I have no problem with the admins having my IP address. To be honest, most of you know enough about me that it wouldn't be a problem. But I certainly don't trust everyone on this site to use that information responsibly.

I don't know much about IP addresses or how technology works in general but if it's something that's traceable, it makes me uncomfortable. 

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I understand your frustration, AG.  I used to not worry so much when I talked to someone that they really were who they said they are.  Now when I see a new profile of a female spankee age 18 - 25, I'm giving it a fifty fifty chance that they're a guy.

I agree that visible IP addresses would enormously alleviate this problem, but I am opposed to it because of the loss of privacy it would create.  Online interaction is a double edged sword.  Yes, people hide behind a computer screen and do shitty things, but anonymity is a wonderful thing when it's used for good.  This is sort of like the old "do you value your freedom or your security more?".

I have a friend on here who has told me a lot of things about her personal life, including what kind of job she has.  If the city she lived in became "public" information, it would probably be easy for me to find out her real name and many more things about her.  I'm not inclined to knowing things about someone before they are comfortable sharing that with me themselves, and I wouldn't want to even be in a POSITION to be able to know such things.  And I predict if IP addresses were to become public,  people would become less comfortable opening up to others and sharing personal details, for fear of the other person finding out who they are.

I had another idea to begin taking care of the problem without overworking the mods.  Write a computer program which would tally people's IP addresses and analyze their writing style from their personal chats (there is some software which can do that reasonably well.  Source: idiot plagiarists in college).  To be even more accurate, the program can look at how long people take to respond to messages.  If the computer program detects a similar writing style and average response time from two people in the same city, it alerts the mods to look into it more closely.  If they're convinced it's the same person, they can proceed to beat that ass.

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Thank you, Colonel Cokernel. That is precisely my thought process. 

15 minutes ago, Colonel Cokernel said:

I understand your frustration, AG.  I used to not worry so much when I talked to someone that they really were who they said they are.  Now when I see a new profile of a female spankee age 18 - 25, I'm giving it a fifty fifty chance that they're a guy.

I agree that visible IP addresses would enormously alleviate this problem, but I am opposed to it because of the loss of privacy it would create.  Online interaction is a double edged sword.  Yes, people hide behind a computer screen and do shitty things, but anonymity is a wonderful thing when it's used for good.  This is sort of like the old "do you value your freedom or your security more?".

I have a friend on here who has told me a lot of things about her personal life, including what kind of job she has.  If the city she lived in became "public" information, it would probably be easy for me to find out her real name and many more things about her.  I'm not inclined to knowing things about someone before they are comfortable sharing that with me themselves, and I wouldn't want to even be in a POSITION to be able to know such things.  And I predict if IP addresses were to become public,  people would become less comfortable opening up to others and sharing personal details, for fear of the other person finding out who they are.

Also, the same people you want to catch with this are the same people who will use measures to keep you from catching them. So the only people at risk of getting found out are the rest of us.

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I don't think it's a good idea because anyone with some internet knowledge will easily hide their IP address and those without that knowledge, who may be innocent, will have theirs exposed.

The admin could block Tor exit nodes or sources that identify as proxies but inspecting every connection takes a lot of processing.

It's less common now as the default is usually "off" but I bet many people haven't changed their router or modem settings to disable remote management and changed the default password. Don't want someone poking about in there!

It isn't completely true that you can't be precisely traced from an IP address. I've worked on a technology help forum for over 15 years and I've been an administrator on there for some time. A lot of my activity on there has involved developing scripts to detect and control spammers, spambots, persistent trolls etc. Now and then we get the occasional colourful character and I investigate them a bit deeper. With tools like reverse DNS and WHOIS you can sometimes find out a surprising amount, I even found someone's address and CV with an IP address as a start within a few minutes. Turned out he's a really nice chap and has a huge amount of IT experience, but that was also partly responsible for me being able to find him :).

The admin here will also know there are other alternatives although I'm not familiar with this platform :).

 

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1 hour ago, KinkyLurkman said:

I too have a friend here who has shared some of their innermost secrets with me, as have I in return. This kind of information should, I think, not be made public. There are people who run sites enabling a person to be tracked from an IP address. They maintain extensive databases, some obtained through hacking, which can test an IP address and find all the data associated with it. It is often possible to find someone's postal address in this way.

Something very useful to know: I have just typed my IP address in the browser URL slot, I was invited to log in to my router. If this is not some local phenomenon, of which I am unaware, it is dangerous. If like many, you have not set an administrator password for your router, it will be very easy to log in using one of the standard defaults, and access the router setup. This will contain your account login id and password, security settings including wifi access key, and possibly email address. This, I think will be agreed, not a good thing. Perhaps someone can advise, if this happens only on ones own address.

As I alluded to in my above post, turn off router/modem remote management.

Also, not all routers/modems allow loopback (accessing external IP address from within network through network device with that IP address), which yours seems to so that is not a definitive test.

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8 hours ago, AfterGeometry said:

...It would do a lot to cut down on the -drama- anyway...which I am sure is as tiresome to the mods as it is to the users...

Dude, this is a spanking oriented chat site. It attracts drama the way cornflakes attract milk.

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I'm for it with one caveat-  that it's available to just the mods.  Numerous respondents are right when they feel it would open a can of worms is everyone were to have access to this...

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Well Said  Gator. ;)

The Ip address should not be shown granted it seems that nothing is private anymore thanks to technology. As far as the fake users they are like fake news.  I  don't give them much thought.  Just like the creepers or the trolls.   As far as drama... here lately it has been quiet in the chat room I think people have to chat to sir up drama either way my opinion is just my opinion. Though I share my view.  Now with that said it didn't change a thing have a great day.:o

 

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12 minutes ago, KinkyLurkman said:

Sorry Northumbrian, teach me to read the whole thread! I will disable remote access, although my admin router password is pretty stiff. Tor not blocked here, BTW, used it when I thought my addy blocked (had conflict at this end). So the FBI know about all my chat that day #whoOwnsTorExitNodes.

I didn't mean to condescend or anything like that! A lot of people don't know about router access though :).

I have an old Netgear and that will allow loopback but my newer Cisco won't (haven't tried that using Tor, although that should work).

The reason I mention it is that routers which won't allow loopback can give the false impression that the management console isn't visible from outside when people try to access them from inside the network :).

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50 minutes ago, KinkyLurkman said:

By the way - how private is personal chat on here? I would have hoped, not available to mods or admin...

I would imagine, that if they needed access to it, they could access it. This is just based on the fact that the chats are now stored between logins with this particular program. Would they have any desire to without some very specific and Urgent reason? I seriously doubt it. Do I worry sometimes about the site getting hacked and all my PM's and my inbox getting accessed, yes but short of actually getting hacked, I don't think anyone would ever go fishing for things. The people who would have access have enough other things to keep them busy.

 

Also, in response to changing router settings Etc. My problem is I don't own the router I go through. So therefore I'm stuck with whatever settings it has if I choose to use Wifi from my house.

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16 minutes ago, gingerlee said:

I would imagine, that if they needed access to it, they could access it.

Unless you use end to end encryption (not available here), it's accessible.  

 

6 hours ago, Colonel Cokernel said:

Now when I see a new profile of a female spankee age 18 - 25, I'm giving it a fifty fifty chance that they're a guy.

lol 50%: :) Colonel, you might want to avoid Las Vegas in the near future!  I think the odds are, well, not this good.

 

 

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Anyone with access to the server could certainly look up IPs. Doesn't mean they're being recorded though. Regardless, you should assume any website you go to has your IP address. 

Anyway, I don't like this idea at all. I pay $5 a year for my vpn. They're super accessible nowadays. It's not going to fix the issue. 

Either way, the issue is just an inconvenience. Most of the 18 year old girl-men are incredibly obvious. If you are very worried about fakes, demand timestamped pictures. This doesn't seem like a problem that needs a nuclear solution. 

 

Another thing: there are a lot of technically complicated solutions here. I don't know what the site owner's technical background is, but a lot of sites like this rely on frameworks and popular APIs. It's not a trivial thing to talk about having last IP be publicly displayed, or do learning algorithms to predict people, or whatever. That's a lot of work, especially for people who may not do this stuff for a living. Good ideas are pretty cheap, execution is expensive. 

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1 hour ago, bi_kellie said:

Anyone with access to the server could certainly look up IPs. Doesn't mean they're being recorded though. Regardless, you should assume any website you go to has your IP address. 

Anyway, I don't like this idea at all. I pay $5 a year for my vpn. They're super accessible nowadays. It's not going to fix the issue. 

Either way, the issue is just an inconvenience. Most of the 18 year old girl-men are incredibly obvious. If you are very worried about fakes, demand timestamped pictures. This doesn't seem like a problem that needs a nuclear solution. 

 

Another thing: there are a lot of technically complicated solutions here. I don't know what the site owner's technical background is, but a lot of sites like this rely on frameworks and popular APIs. It's not a trivial thing to talk about having last IP be publicly displayed, or do learning algorithms to predict people, or whatever. That's a lot of work, especially for people who may not do this stuff for a living. Good ideas are pretty cheap, execution is expensive. 

I just assume everyone is a man :).

 

A little off-topic but in the same vein...

Also, chat isn't very secure for those of a paranoid disposition. Chat doesn't seem to be HTTPS.

That means it would be quite easy for someone to watch your conversation if they were using a protocol analyser, like Wireshark :). Sounds far-fetched but we use them at work all the time.

The POST data would look like this when chatting "Quick test.".

userid=26033&username=Northumbrian&chatroomid=1&message=Quick+test.

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1 hour ago, Northumbrian said:

I just assume everyone is a man :).

 

A little off-topic but in the same vein...

Also, chat isn't very secure for those of a paranoid disposition. Chat doesn't seem to be HTTPS.

That means it would be quite easy for someone to watch your conversation if they were using a protocol analyser, like Wireshark :). Sounds far-fetched but we use them at work all the time.

The POST data would look like this when chatting "Quick test.".

userid=26033&username=Northumbrian&chatroomid=1&message=Quick+test.

It's HTTPS for me. Perhaps it needs to be forced? Either way, the certificate shows up as valid. 

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5 minutes ago, bi_kellie said:

It's HTTPS for me. Perhaps it needs to be forced? Either way, the certificate shows up as valid. 

For me forum itself is HTTPS but I'm sure the (popout) chatbox isn't. Unless Live HTTP Headers is doing something clever :).

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7 minutes ago, Northumbrian said:

For me forum itself is HTTPS but I'm sure the (popout) chatbox isn't. Unless Live HTTP Headers is doing something clever :).

Again, not sure what you're talking about.

Capture - Copy.PNG

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11 minutes ago, bi_kellie said:

Again, not sure what you're talking about.

Capture - Copy.PNG

I posted something in the chatbox and it was visible in plaintext using "Live HTTP Headers" sniffer :).

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3 minutes ago, Northumbrian said:

I posted something in the chatbox and it was visible in plaintext using Live HTTP Headers :).

Ok, I don't know what those are--maybe I can read into it later. But still, I trust the site to be secure, and I trust Google Chrome over your testimony of hacking your own machine. Not saying you're wrong, just...I'm not sure. 

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12 minutes ago, bi_kellie said:

Ok, I don't know what those are--maybe I can read into it later. But still, I trust the site to be secure, and I trust Google Chrome over your testimony of hacking your own machine. Not saying you're wrong, just...I'm not sure. 

I didn't hack my PC, I was just watching network traffic. Sounds innocuous but, as I'm sure you know, anyone can watch network data :).

When I sent a line in the chatroom (which is a POST in the form method sense) it appeared in plaintext in my sniffer as in my above post.

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Generally on the back end of a board you can see the users IP so the moderator(s) potentially can check for Catfish and multiple accounts having done that playing Whack-a-mole for one big forum for a period and used it.

In general I would be less than comfortable  with users IP's publicly displayed here.

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5 minutes ago, KinkyLurkman said:

I can usually tell whether I'm talking to a man or a woman in chat, ways of negotiating conversation being noticeably different, at a level easier to experience than for me to describe. I am sure this is not always the case, though.

I would like to say, much of the appeal of this site, and those like it, is the profound candidness of these conversations. I have had some extraordinary experiences while here. One with a person who is most concerned for their safety and anonymity, the nature of our adventure making clear the reason for this (we don't share any information regarding location and identity, referring to my wife as "Mrs Lurkman" is amusing!). I am aware that anonymity is weak, by any formal measure, it should perhaps be improved, but it is sufficient to inspire confidence. To break that confidence would, to me, break the site.

Those interesting in improving anonymity might be interested to know I am posting this using the Tor browser on medium security, the site seems to work on this setting. On high security most of it works, but quoting, as in this post, and a few dropdown menus are disabled. Presumably these use javascript.  One of the experts in this thread might enlighten as to whether chat is directed through Tor. If it is a requirement when signing up that an email address be provided, I strongly suggest, if your risk assessment is high, that you use one unconnected with any other and, again, accessed securely. Anonymity is, in practice, very hard to achieve. Your location should be spoofed, and no information about your surroundings given which might give lie to the spoof. Such as the weather. Descriptions of the house you live in, its furnishings and decoration, hidden, these can pinpoint country of residence. Don't write, as is increasingly popular, in your regional dialect. Northumbrian will know what I mean, very popular there and able to pinpoint location. But anonymity sufficient to defeat a newspaper journalist is easier. A Tor exit node is able to, and should be assumed to be, monitoring traffic.

Whey aye man!

 

*Cough*... I mean "Yes, of course" :).

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5 hours ago, KinkyLurkman said:

Ever been fooled, mentoring online, Kellie?

Well that's an odd question. How would I know if I've been fooled? The only way I would know would be if they confessed. 

I mean, there are a lot of times when I'll ask a question to trip them up. But when I start setting traps, I'm already 90% sure. You also have to keep in mind that I'm bisexual, so there's less incentive to lie to me. I'll happily play with men that are into feminization/crossdressing, whatever. So I presume folks will log into their male accounts. 

Now, I get fooled all of the time directing self-spanking and other punishments through chat. But they always f#!k up eventually. Always. Then they're ignored. Anyone can PM me if they want my list. 

Here's another question: Has anyone ever caught a fake man? I've seen women posing as men on "Catfish". My guess is that there are several here, and we're just better at being convincing. I know a lot more about men's clothing then you know about women's clothing, as an example.

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