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I came across this interesting article today, of a lady's journey to find that special somebody to meet the need of spanking. It is quite an interesting read, and I know for one I can relate to much of what she dealt with when searching.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/fashion/modern-love-a-spanking-fetish-is-not-revealed-easily.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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  • 2 weeks later...

mmmmm.... seems to me there is still a lot of denial in this text. Even she won't admit that wanting to be spanked is purely erotic: she juggles with "my fetish is both sexual and asexual", which is nonsense imho. As long as spanking fetishists try to keep fooling themselves by denying that this kink of theirs is pure and simple masochism and nothing else, they will struggle with it.

It is foolish to try and explain a sexual kink by all sorts of coily analysises, but excluding the sexual aspect at all cost. Why are there so many people afraid of sexuality these days?

The same mistake is made by the real analizers, the shrinks who keep the myth alive that masochism (or sadomasochism) can't be anything else but a trauma caused by child abuse of some kind. Which isn't true at all either.

So, even while she's "coming out", so to speak, she still manages to stay "in the closet" anyway.

Being spanked by someone you trust, someone you're in a sexual relationship with, liking it and being turned on by it, is called masochism. It is sexual, like it or not.

Being spanked or beaten or whatever else by someone you're scared of, someone you don't love, and not liking it, let alone being turned on by, is abuse.

And that's all. There is no third type, only those two. Whoever pretends there is, is merely hypocritical.

My two cents.

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  • 2 weeks later...

What I find interesting is that you can't possibly entertain the idea that everyone is not exactly like you. There can be an asexual aspect to this. I've experienced it. Where I'm not looking for sexual gratification and not aroused by the spanking or belting or caning whatever the implement of choice is- I feel numb and want to cry or feel guilty and want to suffer or I am crying and want the pain on the outside match the pain on the inside. Not that I haven't experienced and played with the sexual masochism as well with my husband. But I would never claim that your needs are solely brought on by childhood trauma or try and convince you that your needs aren't sexual with regards to this- because you know what your feelings are and for me to tell you otherwise would be pointless, insensitive, and egocentric. Every person is different, every persons wants and needs and path to this need or want is different and what every person gets out of this depends on Alll of those variations and in this huge vast space of internet there is room for all of us. <3

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Thanks for the share supermedic. I read this article a while back. It's pretty huge considering it was in the New York Times, regardless of any possible objections that Botchan was making about not being "out" enough, subjectively speaking. This writer is actually (upon a little research) one of the very few legitimate journalists who is out about her affinity to TTWD, so she's very much out on a limb, without much peer-support, which must be challenging and must have been scary as well.

It takes all stripes! There are indeed patterns among spankos, but one must be cautious to generalize at the risk of offending the individual!

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What I find interesting is that you can't possibly entertain the idea that everyone is not exactly like you. There can be an asexual aspect to this. I've experienced it. Where I'm not looking for sexual gratification and not aroused by the spanking or belting or caning whatever the implement of choice is- I feel numb and want to cry or feel guilty and want to suffer or I am crying and want the pain on the outside match the pain on the inside. Not that I haven't experienced and played with the sexual masochism as well with my husband. But I would never claim that your needs are solely brought on by childhood trauma or try and convince you that your needs aren't sexual with regards to this- because you know what your feelings are and for me to tell you otherwise would be pointless, insensitive, and egocentric. Every person is different, every persons wants and needs and path to this need or want is different and what every person gets out of this depends on Alll of those variations and in this huge vast space of internet there is room for all of us. <3

The sentence in your post I've indented has nothing to do with masochism, or spanking in the way most people here understand it, my dear. It is on the contrary, a very worriying statement: these are the exact explanations given by people who tend to cut themselves or put out cigarettes on their arms or thighs, in other words people who have a tendency to self-destruct, based on a deep self-hate caused by something in the past or any other reason. What you call "the pain on the inside". That has me worried seriously for you, ma'am!

This is NOT what I'm talking about.

People who are in this way "addicted to pain", feel better when it hurts, because the (worse) pain on the inside gets temporarily numbed by it. As soon as the physical pain dissappears, the worse internal pain comes back, and THAT's the problem.

Sexuality or "asexuality" (which is a word for something that doesn't really exist) doesn't come into this at all: this is a psychological problem of an entirely different matter. If you really feel like this, you are somehow in trouble!

People who cut themselves to shreds don't dot hat because they're sexually turned on by it, I couldn't agree more. But they don't do it because they enjoy it, either! They do it because it's the least of two pains!

You have to distinguish different things here. There's kinks, and there's serious psychological disorders...

The lady in the article gave some sort of an explanation that made her kink somehow sound "acceptable" for people who have a taboo-horror against everything they consider "obscene". Her kink was up there in the open, but thank God, it was only half sexual!

And that, my dear, is an impossibility. It's either sexual, or it's not.

If it isn't sexual, it's not a kink. It's something totally different.

I totally acknowledge it was probably done in order to stay a bit on the safe side, since she was, to quote Unspankedboy, "very much out on a limb, without much peer-support, which must be challenging and must have been scary as well." I get that, I don't blame her. I only make the constatation it isn't entirely correct.

And as for the "it takes all stripes" and "Every person is different, every persons wants and needs and path to this need or want is different and what every person gets out of this depends on Alll of those variations" , that might seem correct at first sight, but in reality people aren't all that different from each other, where these things are concerned. You'd be surprised (and some might even be humbled or dissappointed) to find out how much we are mere machines, all directed by a chemical factory that secretes hormones, feromones, prostaglandins and the lot, making us behave in a way or an other, without us deciding over it one bit, or without being incredibly unique in reacting if we do.

So, there ARE certainties about our body and brain that can stand up against all the "uniqueness" we tend to claim: as sure as the fact that none of us can digest sugar without insulin, we can't enjoy physical pain or submission in any way without it being sexual.

We might not be aware of it; but that doesn't make it not so... You don't have to litterally be "turned on" by a spanking in order for it to be a masochistic -and therefor sexual- tendency. People who are used to try their utmost to eradicate all thoughts of sexuality out of everything they feel, will do that unknowingly. But the only ones they're fooling are themselves....

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I am going to completely ignore the attacks on my personal mental health- Because I assure you- you have no reason whatsoever to worry about my mental state, I am a well adjusted, highly educated, mother, partner and member of society, who happens to have the drive to be spanked, it is a small part of a balanced life.

Why exactly is it ok to you to use spanking as a sexual outlet but not an emotional one?

Now if you want to get into Neurochemicals and how machine like we are lets go over some of the fluids swishing around in our bodys that can and do happen during the meeting of a top for a session- whether it be discipline or just because you feel the need to be submissive, heck maybe you just want to have a good cry but not necessarily because your looking for a good bleep ( but if you are thats ok too)

1. Adrenaline-An ‘adrenaline rush’ comes in times of distress or facing fearful situations. It can be triggered on demand by doing things that terrify you or being thrust into a situation that feels dangerous. You can also create an adrenaline rush by taking short rapid breathes and contracting muscles.

This jolt can be healthy in small doses, especially when you need a pick me up. A surge of adrenaline makes you feel very alive. It can be an antidote for boredom, malaise and stagnation. Taking risks, and doing scary things that force you out of your comfort zone is key to maximizing your human potential.

2.Serotonin- Ultimately the link between higher serotonin and a lack of rejection sensitivity allows people to put themselves in situations that will bolster selfesteem, increase feelings of worthiness and create a sense of belonging. To increase serotonin, challenge yourself regularly and pursue things that reinforce a sense of purpose, meaning and accomplishment. Being able to say "I did it!" will produce a feedback loop that will reinforce behaviors that build self esteem and make you less insecure and create an upward spiral of more and more serotonin.

3.Endorphins- Endorphins are produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus during strenuous physical exertion, molecules that helps us deal with pain... These I will give you are also felt during sex- but they can happen independent of sex as in 1999 a clinical study found acupuncture to raise endorphin levels.

Ever heard of a masochist talk about subspace- almost like its meditation- a blank mind where they could tolerate levels of pain that would bring down a medicated coma patient? while Ive only ever experinced this a few times- its very real- actually at the first party I went to ( crimson moon chicago halloween of 08' or 9?) I was so relaxed I closed my eyes and noded off during a session( laying on a bed) that left me marked for quite some time. that chemical is GABA-GABA is an inhibitory molecule that slows down the firing of neurons and creates a sense of calmness or the "relaxation response"

I never said I do not get any good feelings out of a non sexual spanking like discipline or stress relief- just that I was not aroused sexually before during or immediately post session. I feel forgiven, I feel peace, I feel calm, I feel energized- I feel reset- I do not feel like going 12 round with christian grey. Now do myself and my husband break out the comfy cuffs and do some light play, that doesn't bring me to tears, yep we sure do ( we also have and enjoy plain old vanilla sex too- so dont attack my mental well being there) The molecule that im feeling there is called Oxytocin ' the bonding molecule'

Yes we are very physically similar in the chemicals that regulate us- but it is our humanity our everyday experiences that determine who we interpret and seek out these chemical reactions. How do two soldiers who go to war- experience the same battles come home and one lives in mental disrepair and the other moves on and copes successfully? same bodies-same chemicals- different outcomes. experiences count and shape us.

Also many of the people here have had an interest in being spanked well before sexual maturity set in- a six year old does not look for spanking scenes on tv, or an older child look up the word in the dictionary because they are turned on by it- it fills an entirely different need that is clearly not sexual as those hormones havent even thought about kicking in yet.

Now let the great debate begin everyone ! ( I love a good debate/conversation)

Is spanking solely a sexual need for you? Has it always been that way? Do you seek spankings outside of sex- why? Does spanking fill both a sexual and non sexual need for you? is spanking entirely without sexual appeal to you? When did this interest begin? Do you think this is a result of trauma in your childhood?

My stance is that its totally ok to find sexual pleasures in this but that it is also possible for the process to fill solely mental and physical needs without arousal as well or even a mix of the two. and Botchan is on the its sexual or mental illness. What say you?

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Spanking does not have a sexual connection for me, although I understand and accept that it does for many, and I have no problem with that. I do not "enjoy" spanking, but I feel I have a "need" for the emotional connection, relinquishing of control, and nurturing that come along with it.

There are all kinds of levels of physical arousal, some of which are related to the "fight or flight" response (produced by a flooding of certain chemicals in the brain and body like cortisol, etc) and which can also manifest in a sexual reaction, even if the stimulus is not sexual in nature. This is why soldiers sometimes feel extreme guilt for having a sexual reaction during combat or when witnessing atrocities -- and often continue to have such reactions when witnessing violence in movies, etc. It's difficult for people to then separate this adaptive physiological response from their sexuality -- partly because we are not generally encouraged to talk about these things, which is a shame.

So I agree with aust0226ap -- it is possible for spanking to fulfill physical and emotional needs without sexual arousal, and it is also possible for it to be sexually arousing or to produce elements of both. I think experienced 'ERs probably recognize that the need that is being fulfilled may not be sexual, even if sexual arousal (in a physical sense) is present.

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mmmmm.... seems to me there is still a lot of denial in this text. Even she won't admit that wanting to be spanked is purely erotic: she juggles with "my fetish is both sexual and asexual", which is nonsense imho. As long as spanking fetishists try to keep fooling themselves by denying that this kink of theirs is pure and simple masochism and nothing else, they will struggle with it.

It is foolish to try and explain a sexual kink by all sorts of coily analysises, but excluding the sexual aspect at all cost. Why are there so many people afraid of sexuality these days?

The same mistake is made by the real analizers, the shrinks who keep the myth alive that masochism (or sadomasochism) can't be anything else but a trauma caused by child abuse of some kind. Which isn't true at all either.

So, even while she's "coming out", so to speak, she still manages to stay "in the closet" anyway.

Being spanked by someone you trust, someone you're in a sexual relationship with, liking it and being turned on by it, is called masochism. It is sexual, like it or not.

Being spanked or beaten or whatever else by someone you're scared of, someone you don't love, and not liking it, let alone being turned on by, is abuse.

And that's all. There is no third type, only those two. Whoever pretends there is, is merely hypocritical.

My two cents.

So what you are saying then is that everyone who seeks a same sex spanking partner has homosexual tendencies? If that's the case then so be it, but just so I understand

your assertion correctly: Since you say that spanking activity is purely erotic, by deduction, if I sample the space of same sex er-ee pairs, I should only find people who have

homosexual tendencies or are homosexual, right?

People can chime in here, but I would guess that there are a fair number of women who will only be spanked by other women, for the very reason that

they want to stay away from any possible sexual implications of the spanking, and that there are a (smaller, but non-zero) number of males who have the

need to be spanked by other men and that not all of them are homosexual or have some curiosity toward it. What your hypothesis asserts is that those women

and men are then somehow mentally damaged? Maybe we are, but is that your assertion?

In my opinion, the existence of heterosexual same sex er-ee pairs would invalidate your assertion that spanking is purely erotic.

Also, I don't think that the sexual or erotic side of spanking is the thing that people have trouble accepting or "coming out" about.

Spanking as sexual kink is sort of yesterday's news; not deserving of a nytimes article.

As far as I remember reading/hearing, it is now known that a significant fraction of people have sexual foreplay involving BDSM, etc.

so it seems hardly a big deal to admit that to others anymore.

What IS hard to admit in public is that one looks for it as a form of therapy, or cathartic release; that it makes one feel better in a way that can, under the right circumstances, be completely disconnected from sexual feeling. The type of reaction you have to it is one reason why people have a hard time coming out about

that -- in that regard you're part of the problem.

In some sense I agree with you, but only in so far as, in essence, everything we do is geared toward procreation and therefore many two-body (and some three-body) interactions have a sexual bend to it. Most of this happens subconsciously and the question is, where do you draw the line between simply feeling good and having sexual pleasure? If the line is an erection or an orgasm, or the onset thereof, I can assure you that there are MANY people who never cross that line during spanking, or even come close to it and they are not being abused or have some sort of mental condition (I know many like that - including myself).

Finally, liking spanking for sexual pleasure and for other reasons are not mutually exclusive; the outcome depends VERY much on the involved people and the setting.

In a way, you come across as someone a little "verklemmt" yourself ...

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  • 2 years later...
On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2015 at 1:58 PM, supermedic said:

I came across this interesting article today, of a lady's journey to find that special somebody to meet the need of spanking. It is quite an interesting read, and I know for one I can relate to much of what she dealt with when searching.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/fashion/modern-love-a-spanking-fetish-is-not-revealed-easily.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2015 at 1:58 PM, supermedic said:

I came across this interesting article today, of a lady's journey to find that special somebody to meet the need of spanking. It is quite an interesting read, and I know for one I can relate to much of what she dealt with when searching.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/fashion/modern-love-a-spanking-fetish-is-not-revealed-easily.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Hi Supermedic!!  I see you are from Texas.........any chances Fort Hood???  I was there for training to Vietnam back in the 60's. Medic/nurse.

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On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2015 at 10:11 AM, katekk said:

Spanking does not have a sexual connection for me, although I understand and accept that it does for many, and I have no problem with that. I do not "enjoy" spanking, but I feel I have a "need" for the emotional connection, relinquishing of control, and nurturing that come along with it.

There are all kinds of levels of physical arousal, some of which are related to the "fight or flight" response (produced by a flooding of certain chemicals in the brain and body like cortisol, etc) and which can also manifest in a sexual reaction, even if the stimulus is not sexual in nature. This is why soldiers sometimes feel extreme guilt for having a sexual reaction during combat or when witnessing atrocities -- and often continue to have such reactions when witnessing violence in movies, etc. It's difficult for people to then separate this adaptive physiological response from their sexuality -- partly because we are not generally encouraged to talk about these things, which is a shame.

So I agree with aust0226ap -- it is possible for spanking to fulfill physical and emotional needs without sexual arousal, and it is also possible for it to be sexually arousing or to produce elements of both. I think experienced 'ERs probably recognize that the need that is being fulfilled may not be sexual, even if sexual arousal (in a physical sense) is present.

Having been in Vietnam, I witnessed a lot of this type of thing.  The soldiers are trained to be violent and kill. Somewhere in the mix a "high" comes into play and the chemical signals get switched around. The more violence the bigger the "high"  Does this indicate a latent psychopath developing? No-one really knows but in most causes there is real trouble brewing in the mind. I think with spanking, since the nerves in the behind are related to the nerves in the sexual organs and such stimulation occurs in the majority of cases. Children are not sexually developed at the age they are usually spanked so this doesn't occur. How many have been spanked as children and spank time afterwards rubbing their bum. As they mature this may trigger sexual feelings and they relate it to spanking.  And to-days parents don't spank their kids and still it happens....so go figure! The more we think about it.....the more convoluted it becomes. For me...I go with the flow...don't give it any thought and just enjoy what comes along (no pun intended).

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  • 1 year later...

LOL after Botchan did such a supreme job of explaining the "real" interests and needs of the author of the NY Times article, that author, Jillian Keenan, went on to write a book that most of us would regard as being a very accurate reflection of what it means to be "into" spanking. The book, Sex and Shakespeare, is an absolute must-read if you consider that spanking (giving or receiving) is a part of who you are.  As for the claim that Keenan is "in denial" I might point out that she has a very devoted following on Twitter precisely because she isn't afraid to talk about her spanking fetish in the context of her everyday life.

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Just finished reading Sex and Shakespeare and loved it. Keenan experiences spanking in some different ways than me, but her memoir really is a must read for spankos (although she hates that term). If you aren't into Shakespeare there will be a lot of sections you will want to skip (she has frequent imaginary conversations with Shakespearean characters and analyzes the plays as well). But if you love both spanking and Shakespeare (as I do) you'll get a lot out of the book.

Would love to chat with others who have read it.

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