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Random question/concern toward spankers


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So as some have seen in my intro post, I am new here though I have lurked a long time.

I see patterns, cliches, and such and had a few (general) questions.

I think it is clear that to some degree, there is a certain amount of sexual undertones, even if it is not known. Whether it is acted upon or not is another story.

Now I have been so super cautious in reaching out to anyone, messaging them and such. I know this is a road to be tread carefully and lightly, but I have some "background" to share, and then a question. When I first developed interest in spanking, I was a child. However my full interest came on in my adult life, around the age of 22 or 23. (I am now 29, and married).

When I first started my "search" before I was even dating or engaged, I found several sites and even personal ads. I responded to a few, but communication was soon cut off. The concern is, one of the first questions that many of them would ask was height and weight. I even had one meetup planned, and when pictures were exchanged- he dropped me like a hot plate. This wasn't the first occurrence of that, it happened often.

Now my question is this:

Since there is somewhat of a sexual undertone, no matter how small- how important is attractiveness?

I see varying things around the site, but the general thoughts I see is that many of the better known members (by this, I mean the ones I see who have posted a lot, and seem legitimate from their posts. A couple I have even messaged for further chat/advice) have a genuine desire to help their "ee's". If this is the case, should there be any pre-requisite of weight, height, stats etc?

I have wondered about this for awhile, and my past experiences would indicate that hey- a lot of spankers aren't willing to genuinely work with a individual, unless they fit a specific type (height, weight, body, physique, looks, etc). Which to me just seems shallow. Is this specific to fantasies or what? I am truly confused on this issue.

A traditional psychologist, doctor, psychiatrist, therapist and so forth- would lose their license if they "discriminated" based on looks, so why do I see it sometimes in the "spanking therapy world"? To be clear, I am not thinking of any specific things on this particular website, as all of my dealings so far with individuals have been pleasant and helpful. But more I am interested in getting thoughts from spankers in general about the attractiveness factor.

I can understand that if there is a large difference in the spanker and spankee, that provisions might have to be made. Such as a petite woman attempting to take a 250 pound man over her knee, or visa versa, and this should probably be discussed ahead of time. Or if there is a physical disability that requires specific precautions, positioning etc this should also be discussed.

But just general insistence on knowing looks, height, weight, build etc... before agreeing to help somebody seems shallow at best and worst, narcissistic and is a red flag (at least to me). If the business is to truly help somebody, should it matter? Would like thoughts.

Thanks Everyone

M

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Yes, someone asking for physical specifics like that is a red flag - and let's be clear about what "red flag" means - it is essentially a caution signal, something to be taken into consideration...it is something that alone is not conclusive, but just a clue. Jeff is right, it could just be someone wanting to get an idea of who you are, but usually that is a conversation that would take place way down the line, and instigated by you.

For example - if a guy calls up a girl he barely knows for a date, and the first thing he says is "what are you wearing right now?" - well, that's a red flag!

:P

Ben

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Think of it this way. If you are corresponding with someone who seems to feel they need to have those vital statistics as THEIR requirement to spank YOU, they are looking for something other than what you are seeking. Take that as a sign that THEY should be crossed off YOUR list.

It's not a question I typically ask, because overall, it's not important to me. Generally speaking, people with weight challenges bring it up themselves either because it's an issue they want to work on, or they are worried about how their weight ( either too much or too little ) will affect the actual spanking.

Overall, I am an equal opportunity spanker without regard to height, weight, gender, race, sexual orientation, or religion. I have, however, been known to send the hygienically challenged home for a shower.

MB

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So this brings up another question. What about the reverse situation? Is the one on the receiving end and more of a position to specify and or reject certain things ?

What I mean by that is does a spankee have the upper hand and what about reverse discrimination ? Such as a suspect the only wanting certain people of certain build , characteristics, looks, height, or would that be just as wrong?

From everything I read on here I read that the spankee is the ultimate one in charge of the situation, likewise the spanker is in control. The spankee should have the ability to stop the scene whenever he or she needs to. Etc

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Hi Supermedic,

You have some really great questions! Thanks for posting them.

Your question seems to have two parts -- one is about power and control, and the other is about how one chooses an EE or ER and whether it is "wrong" to discriminate on the basis of certain characteristics like gender, body type, age, etc.

On the power and control issue, my bias is that the ER is in control only to the degree that the EE allows. I agree with Christy's post on this topic, which she bumps from time to time.

For EEs, I suspect that the choice of ERs is driven partly by whatever their fantasies are about spanking, as well as maybe personal history. Gender seems to be a common preference -- some people can't imagine being spanked by someone of the same or opposite gender, for whatever reasons (and none of this has been studied, so we really don't know what drives it). For example, if someone has a specific fantasy about being taken in hand by a favorite male coach from their childhood, then they'll likely seek out someone who is similar to the object of that fantasy. You will probably get as many answers to this question as there are EEs.

In my own case, my experiences with corporal punishment as a child at the hands of men were very abusive (as in requiring medical intervention). I now have many men in my life whom I trust and adore (now that I think about it, most of my close friends are men), but I have no desire to be spanked by a man. Did the childhood abuse "cause" that? I don't know for sure, but I think so. I'm not sure that particular aversion could be de-conditioned out of me, much in the same way studies show that the disgust response to specific stimuli cannot be changed (and I'm not really interested in experimenting to find out).

Other than gender, I don't have a strong preference in terms of body type, ethnicity, age, etc. (my ER is actually younger than I am), but I do have a strong preference in terms of personality type. It seems to be important to me that my top have a loving and nurturing personality, as well as a certain quality of "toppiness." What I mean by that is that I am not naturally submissive, I tend to resist others' authority over me (as much as I crave that, oddly enough), and I tend to overthink things, so I need a top who is "toppy" enough to be able to cut through my BS and take charge. I have always been drawn toward these kinds of charismatic and "toppy" personalities, even since childhood.

Having said all that, my drive is not sexual in nature, so it may be different for EEs who have fantasies and needs that are more erotic in nature. But hopefully these examples help explain how individual needs can influence how someone chooses an ER (or an EE).

I agree with MissBam, though -- if someone is asking questions about body type, wanting to see pictures, etc, then they are likely looking to fulfill their own sexual fantasies (and also likely to be less concerned about YOUR needs), and I would view that as a red flag. If they are saying their interests are NOT sexual, but they are asking these kinds of questions, then I would have serious doubts about their actual intentions.

Take care,
kate

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I agree, katekk, that most of the time matters such as gender and age DO make a difference when seeking out an "ER".

I am not offended by someone seeking a spanking who says to me "I really think that for a spanking to be effective for me, it needs to come from a man". There are other people who desire a motherly figure for their spanking experience to meet their needs.

It wouldn't do you any good at all, katekk, to be spanked by a 25 year old male, or even a 25 year old female. That certainly isn't to say that that same 25 year old male or female isn't exactly what someone else needs.

It's all about finding the right match.

MB

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Think of it this way. If you are corresponding with someone who seems to feel they need to have those vital statistics as THEIR requirement to spank YOU, they are looking for something other than what you are seeking. Take that as a sign that THEY should be crossed off YOUR list.

It's not a question I typically ask, because overall, it's not important to me. Generally speaking, people with weight challenges bring it up themselves either because it's an issue they want to work on, or they are worried about how their weight ( either too much or too little ) will affect the actual spanking.

Overall, I am an equal opportunity spanker without regard to height, weight, gender, race, sexual orientation, or religion. I have, however, been known to send the hygienically challenged home for a shower.

MB

I RARELY challenge MissB publicly, however in this case I need to correct something:

I know the story and she did not send them home. She took them by the ear, walked them to the bathroom. left them with soap and a towel and then provided an appropriate OTK lecture before driving home the key points of personal hygiene with a hairbrush.

Btw, I NEVER EVER miss a bath or shower!

bathtub.gif

Ben

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OK first of all, it's unfortunate but EVERYTHING is this world has something to do with attractiveness, more or less. let alone something as arousing as spanking. So you gotta forgive some people for being superficial. With that being said, what is it that you look for in a spanking? If a pure spanking is what you look for, there are tons of older spankers out there that do not care ee's appearance at all. If attractiveness is not a concern of yours, you could see them. Or you can convert your husband into being a spanko hehehehe

I hope this helps.

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I think if you were looking for a purely mentor/ee relationship (which is the context I think you were referring to) then physical attractiveness shouldn't matter. I guess everyone is looking for something different though - I consider physical appearance when looking for a spanker because ultimately I'm looking for a DD relationship and I'd like for there to be a possibility of the mentor/ee relationship progressing into a DD one should feelings develop. It might seem shallow, but when I look for a boyfriend/long term partner, there has to be some level of physical attraction there (as in, the guy doesn't have to be very attractive but I at least shouldn't find him unattractive) just because I find that it does so much more for the relationship, or at least the sexual aspects of it. However, if someone believes attractiveness shouldn't matter and their potential spanker/ee does, then they both are likely not looking for the same thing and probably aren't a good fit for each other..

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In my fantasy world physical attractiveness and a particular body and bottom type factor prominently into the scene. Ok...flash forward to reality. Physical attractiveness has a much lesser level of importance in the real world. I have found that the better I get to know someone who shares my spanking passion, the less their physical appearance matters.

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In addition to other reasons that I didn't follow through on spanking a woman on a blind date (more than a decade ago), I was concerned how her additional weight would affect the OTK position.

Having a membership to the gym associated with one of my colleges, I've noticed the men are a lot more confident to let it all hang out. I've seen all sorts of body types there. With the whirlpool in the locker room, some men soak nude, others in suits. There was a time when this would have bothered me.

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There is some element of appearance, to say there isn't would be denying human nature.

Though for myself, what I enjoy most is a spankee who will react to a spanking without cliche'd behaviour. I want an honest reaction.

When I am the spankee, I react honestly. I believe its important to let anyone who is spanking me know what me feeling is. Good feedback is important.

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25+ years of experience as an adult spanker....

It's only confusing or seems like a "red flag" (I love how that term gets bandied about) if you incorrectly look at this through the prism of paid licenced professionals like massage therapists or doctors performing a service. Despite people calling themselves that there are no real "pros" in this. We are all volunteers who spank because we have an interest in adult spanking. That particular interest varies from spanker to spanker. Just like spankees, we tend to carry a lot of common traits from spanker to spanker but we are all individuals with individual interests, situations, and what are particular take is on this. That interest might be entirely sexual, moderately or situationally, or not at all. What's important is what people do, not what they say.

We are all consenting adults. To cut right to it, just as no spankee is obligated to be spanked by every top, no spanker is obligated to spank anyone they don't want. For any reason. Including body type, size, or attractiveness, as inconvenient or upsetting as that may be to some people. There are plenty of spankees who have all manner of personal preferences that are deal breakers if not met....everything from age to height, weight, appearance, education, profession, etc and they are entirely legitimate preferences. Attempts to "shame" spankers off of having preferences other than one's own by suggesting that there is some ulterior motive behind them is absurd and, frankly, obnoxious, IMO. When a guy tries to stick his penis in your mouth or wetchecks without consent, by all means, make an issue.....Until then how about we celebrate all spankos, male and female, top and bottom, alike, being true to themselves and pursuing their interest ethically and in a healthy way, even if it does include sex, eh? A spanker's preferences and limits, whatever they are, are no more or less valid than any spankee's. We focus on the spankee's preferences and limits so much because it makes the most sense to do that, but the spanker's are no more or less important. Yes, as a spanker, I have limits. Don't you? I love that this bears explaining. LOL

I glanced at your intro and I understand where your concerns come from. You are trying to be non-sexual in a "discreet" manner, if I understand correctly? Do not let that distract you from your and every top and bottom's true task....To find one you can trust.

If I were a spankee, I would be wary of anyone who said it wasn't sexual for them at all. These people do exist, but they are a lot more rare than what people on these forums will often have you believe. That's not to say it's a "red flag" necessarily, but keep it in mind as you get to know them. Amongst the ones for whom it is sexual, find out to what extent. It doesn't mean they will want sex, they are just being honest with you. Or, they might prefer sex with their spanking, but are fine keeping it platonic. For the record, I'm kind of like that but flipped....I like to start platonic with every spankee discipline or otherwise and if something progresses beyond, great. If not, great, too. Nothing says it has to. Trust, right? Respect, right?

I mention all of that because there's another kind of preditor for whom this is sexual.....The bait and switch guy. This is the one that tells you that it isn't sexual for him then sometime in the vicinity of your second or third session, if not before, he starts suggesting that he be repaid with oral. Which is probably fine to an extent too, except now its all he talks about and makes the partnership contingent on it. Or something else. These are the ones to watch for. The decievers. The manipulatiors.

These are the red flags.....By the way, do yourself a favor and learn the difference between real red flags and incompatible preferences early because there are way too many people here who will tell you they are one in the same. They aren't. A red flag ISN'T liking sex with your spanking with a consenting partner and then telling another spankee who isn't looking for that, the truth. LOL I don't know where some of these people come up with this stuff. It's ridiculous. A red flag is not honoring limits, sexual or otherwhise, manipulation, unsafe play, etc. There are concerns beyond sex with this that if addressed should cover that issue.

Bottom line is you have to get to know someone well and be able to trust them before doing anything, but once you do and are with that person you should be fine in all areas where limits are concerned...even then ease in and make sure they will honor your limits. It doesn't matter where you met them or what they said on their post/profile/first message etc. It's work and often a frustrating time consuming process. I've seen desperate newbies cut corners because they focused on one aspect they were most worried about like discretion and wind up in bad situations that they regretted. I hope that won't be you. Meeting the right person for this takes dedication, work, and often, lots of time. Just the fact that we are all so spread out in most cases is a factor. I've chatted with some spankees for years before they were ready to meet. Welcome to being a spanko.

I also advise married people to not sneak around for this if they want actual discipline to work, but that's probably a topic for another discussion.

Best wishes with your search. And welcome.

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I've read all the comments and I've considered both the EEs and the ERs side. With that being said, as an ee I don't want an unattractive, large, man spanking me. I would most likely feel afraid or uncomfortable. I imagine it to be the same for some ERs, not wanting a woman they find unattractive as an ee because it may make them feel uncomfortable.

There was a psychological experiment, which was filmed, shown in one of my psychology courses at my college. It showed the emotional reaction of infants who viewed faces that were considered attractive, smiling and well kept, vs. the opposite. Each infant responded with positive emotional reaction towards the faces that were considered attractive and had an adverse reaction to the opposite.

We learned in that course that people surround themselves with others they find alike their selves, as well as others they find attractive. That is not to say that there is one specific set/level of characteristic(s) in attractiveness for all. However it does make sense as to why one may have pre-requisites in regards to finding a EE or ER. There were separate experiments that concluded our brains are rewarded with the sight of beautiful faces.

As it may seem shallow, and as if one may have an ulterior motive in finding an ee other than platonic reasons, it may simply just be that person feels more comfortable with someone who is physically appealing (their version of pleasant of course). With scientific evidence of the way our brains work, I don't see anything wrong in someone wishing for another to have a specific set of characteristics in order to develop a physical relationship with them. After all, it is still very much a physical relationship, (and let's not forget an intimate one), when an EE and an ER do their dance.

That's only my two cents though. :rolleyes:

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I read about the same article regarding infants. And several more astonishing experiments that now magnify how critical that first year is in terms of brain activity. I cant remember the exact window, but there is only about a 6 month period from when an infant is capable of learning the sound of every letter in any language and when that ends; ie, the difficulty Asians have with "r" and "l".

My mother and her 3 sibs were fluent in English, Albanian and Italian. By the time they started having kids, english became the primary language and most of her sibs married people who werent fluid in other languages. AS a result, none of my cousins or myself are fluent or bilingual.

I saw an item on facebook about a sonogram that went viral. They kept trying to get the fetus to face forward, but it kept its head burrowed until one moment and then gave a very clear thumbs up picture.

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Forbin and Dearie Duck, you make some very valid points about preferences. I think that when you're in a situation where you're looking for someone to 'play' or when seeking a more intimate relationship, this is pretty important. Chemistry and attraction are must haves.

I think, however, that what we may be talking about is truth in advertising. If you're putting it out there that you're a spanker available for discipline or various other kinds of spankings, to get this kind of information from people and summarily dismiss them on this basis is just kinda cold.

What I'm trying to say is that there is a difference between preference and prejudice. I think most spankers are pretty good about saying upfront what they are willing to provide, but there are a number of others who aren't. It's not unexpected, it's the internet, it's a spanking site. I think that you have to develop a thick hide on either side of the paddle. Ee's have to weed out the Er's and Er's have to weed out the Ee's to meet their own needs, It's time consuming and can be discouraging, but essentially it's just the process.

I'm familiar with the studies on infants and and their gaze preference for attractive adults. There are other studies out there that suggest that while this holds true, infants also have a gaze preference for people with unattractive body shapes, particularly in men. Go figure. Gotta pity the infant with ugly parents who have great bodies! :P

MB

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Awesome. My topic is "hot" :D

Where to begin.

It seems there are as many thoughts on this as there are ee's and ER's. And as careful as I am being in anyone I am currently talking to/getting to know, I have not encountered a concern about attractiveness. (Which I guess, is a good thing!)

I want to reply to everyone or most, but that seems it would be a very difficult task, so I will break it up I suppose. It would appear that we have reached somewhat of an impasse on whether or not attractiveness is a factor.

@ Miss Bam- You make a very valid point, and thank you for saying so. (and I am still laughing about "hygienically challenged)

@Forbin70I agree in that case you mentioned, each ee or ER should be free to decide yes/no on who they spank/mentor/go-to/submit to.

Side note to Forbin, I am not "sneaking" around. My husband is well aware of the situation, and we are in the process of deciding the best course of action to take. There are options, one gentleman has even offered to meet with both of us- and "teach" my husband how to effectively spank me, so that is an option that is being considered.

@ Zhal I could say that the "otk" position is not likely to work, ever for me due to the immense pain I have in my right hip, knee, thigh, ankle, and shoulder. Long story about a horrible car accident 18 months ago. So if otk would not work, I would think you could find another way to make it happen. But then again, it is your prerogative to set the parameters of who you want to help and who you don't.

@ unabashed: That is a very valid point. If you are desiring for a romantic relationship to come of it, then I would think you would have your standards that you would have for any date, etc..

It came up in conversation today, and this sparks another question and food for thought. When I was speaking to a "potential" today, the issue of attractiveness came up, in the aspect of "What if". As in "What if a mutual attraction or one sided develops". How is that handled?

The consensus in the conversation was, there is simply discipline and correction to happen, so it couldn't ever be acted upon. And more than that, being married I could never act upon any attraction to another man. So to the spankers and spankees- What do you do if one, or both parties develop an attraction? (Grant it, I know this may be the desire of some). But with spanking in and of itself, being such an intimate act- it would seem that at some point, some degree of attraction is normal, expected and at the very least- sits in the back of the mind.

Again, I am brand new on everything, so I could be badly mistaken.

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Something that has not been mentioned here yet, that I believe is an underlying dynamic that explains some of the indepth replies you are getting, is the power dynamic that happens in a spanker/spankee relationship - and it is something that is difficult if not impossible to fully understand until you are in it. I would suggest you read Christy's thread titled Power and Control, there is a lot of good info there that speaks to what happens in the brains of both parties inside the spanker/spankee relationship - albeit platonic, sexual, etc.

You last post also fringes on the discussion of "transference" and "cross-transference", which is also related somewhat to the power dynamic. Typically used in therapy or caregiving relationships, Transference is when the person being cared for, develops feelings for the care-giver, Cross-Transference is when the reverse happens. It's a discussion that I've been surprised does not happen here as often as one would think given the intimate nature of this activity.

:)

Ben

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Not sure how to quote in mobile.. but Ben said, "You last post also fringes on the discussion of "transference" and "cross-transference", which is also related somewhat to the power dynamic."

Familiar with those terms from my psychology classes.. One thing that I are class talked about was terminating the relationship if it continued or became a problem . But I realize this is talking about traditional therapy and I highly doubt my psychology class is going to cover spanking therapy lol.

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-snip-

@Forbin70I agree in that case you mentioned, each ee or ER should be free to decide yes/no on who they spank/mentor/go-to/submit to.

Side note to Forbin, I am not "sneaking" around. My husband is well aware of the situation, and we are in the process of deciding the best course of action to take. There are options, one gentleman has even offered to meet with both of us- and "teach" my husband how to effectively spank me, so that is an option that is being considered.

-snip-

@ unabashed: That is a very valid point. If you are desiring for a romantic relationship to come of it, then I would think you would have your standards that you would have for any date, etc..

It came up in conversation today, and this sparks another question and food for thought. When I was speaking to a "potential" today, the issue of attractiveness came up, in the aspect of "What if". As in "What if a mutual attraction or one sided develops". How is that handled?

The consensus in the conversation was, there is simply discipline and correction to happen, so it couldn't ever be acted upon. And more than that, being married I could never act upon any attraction to another man. So to the spankers and spankees- What do you do if one, or both parties develop an attraction? (Grant it, I know this may be the desire of some). But with spanking in and of itself, being such an intimate act- it would seem that at some point, some degree of attraction is normal, expected and at the very least- sits in the back of the mind.

Again, I am brand new on everything, so I could be badly mistaken.

That's fantastic to hear, and I'm sorry if I missed that detail on your intro. I think for actual discipline to work it needs to be something that clears you of guilt and helps you move forward, not create a new something to hide from. It's counter productive, basicly. Best wishes to you and your husband and I hope getting into this is a great experience for you both.

Your last question.....Partnerships and friendships do progress so these things do happen. If you are with someone who you have had healthy open communication with from the start and can trust then it's just a matter of working it out as adults. Be clear upfront that you are married and have your husband involved and I don't think you will have any problems. Worst case, you weren't compatible with that spanker so now you need to find a new one. There are potentially endless compatibility issues, so these things do happen.

The good news is you need to establish communication and trust with anyone who is going to discipline you anyway, so if this were to come up you will already be in an excellent position to deal with it.

Yes, I find spanking partnerships often become intimate on a level....That's what I like about them, honestly. Nothing says that has to lead to sex. I find it kind of special when you have that with someone you aren't having sex with, personally and can underscore really close friendships that make all of this truly rewarding.

If you are asking how to avoid that awkward situation....I have no idea. Awkward situations abound in these parts. lol Welcome to being a spanko. :P

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