Power and Control

[redzonedefense_F]

Sometimes, I feel as if I need to explain my asking droves and droves of questions when someone asks to engage in an online mentoring relationship or meeting in person, as much for their peace of mind as mine. For as much as we may like to believe we can ascertain who someone is online, text, even over the phone or Skype, you must take precautions. Let someone know who you are going to be with, their contact information, where you are going to be and make arrangements to make contract with whomever has that information, so that they can know you arrived at your destination safely and when you are on your way home. Hopefully, it will not be needed but if the person meeting you has nothing to hide, they will not take issue with you having that information (provided you only make use of it in a dire situation). I agree wholeheartedly with meeting in public the first time. Do not commit to anything happening other than a "getting to know you" coffee or lunch. Take your time throughout the entire process of getting to know each other. Trust your instincts. Know you have the right to say what is ok with you and what is not. If that is not respected immediately, leave.

I met someone online about 18 months ago. No, not here. We spoke online and on the phone a great deal. I felt I understood who he was. He always conducted himself like a gentleman with thought and care for me and my feelings. He stated, after several months, that he would be in the area. I considered him a real friend and was happy to meet him. I did not take my own advice. I was assaulted and truthfully, was lucky it didn't wind up far worse.

I have had many wonderful exchanges and encounters. I have also been very, very afraid. Be cautious. There are those that forget there are people behind the words on the screen.

~red~

[Christy]

Bump

[Christy]

I’m posting this as a response to being contacted in private by different ee’s who tell horror stories of being abused and taken advantage of by the people spanking them.

Because this is serious and appears to be happening more and more, I’d like to address the issues of Power and Control, as it relates to the relationship between ee's and ‘Er’s, before, during and after a session.

As an ‘ee, you must keep in mind that while you may have a need and craving to relinquish control to someone, ultimately you must accept the responsibility to say “No” or “Stop” (or whatever safe word had been agreed upon) should the circumstances demand it. Whatever happens in a session, only does so with your permission and those of us who spank, only do so with YOUR permission, and therefore a session should end immediately if that permission is withdrawn.

Any session that continues after permission is withdrawn, is no longer a session - it is an assault, and you should treat it accordingly. That means doing everything you would do if you were personally attacked on the street. Run, escape, call or scream for help, etc.

I would like to suggest to any ‘ee, especially those who are new to this, that you invest time and effort into building relationships with some of the more experienced people on this forum before proceeding. There is a very potent exchange of power that takes place during a session, and it should not be underestimated. The intimacy and the act of submission are like gun powder, and the spanking can be a spark that ignites a situation you were not planning on, or prepared for - but might later regret. I would be very happy to discuss this in private with anyone who needs to.

The most important thing to always keep in mind, is that the Power is ALWAYS ultimately yours; to grant permission, or to withdraw it.

[Guest northeast girl]

With the current person I am with we talked on a website as well as on messenger for almost a year. We also met in a public place when we finally did meet. Also during those numerous conversations we covered not only safewords but body language as well which was a good thing cause it was actually my body language that let him know I needed a break . In the more than a decade I have known him he has proven to be not only a great spanking partner but also a very dear friend as well and for this he will always have my love and respect.

[Christy]

Bump

[gentle51sp]

I strongly recommend always meeting in a public place before going any further. By meeting in a public place it gives you both a chance to chat and get a feel for each other. If either of you is uncomfortable you can simply leave and there is no harm done.

I totally agree with this point. A public meet and chat before actually engaged to spank practice is very important.

[Christy]

Been awhile since I bumped this. Reposting to do so.

I’m posting this as a response to being contacted in private by different ee’s who tell horror stories of being abused and taken advantage of by the people spanking them.

Because this is serious and appears to be happening more and more, I’d like to address the issues of Power and Control, as it relates to the relationship between ee's and ‘Er’s, before, during and after a session.

As an ‘ee, you must keep in mind that while you may have a need and craving to relinquish control to someone, ultimately you must accept the responsibility to say “No” or “Stop” (or whatever safe word had been agreed upon) should the circumstances demand it. Whatever happens in a session, only does so with your permission and those of us who spank, only do so with YOUR permission, and therefore a session should end immediately if that permission is withdrawn.

Any session that continues after permission is withdrawn, is no longer a session - it is an assault, and you should treat it accordingly. That means doing everything you would do if you were personally attacked on the street. Run, escape, call or scream for help, etc.

I would like to suggest to any ‘ee, especially those who are new to this, that you invest time and effort into building relationships with some of the more experienced people on this forum before proceeding. There is a very potent exchange of power that takes place during a session, and it should not be underestimated. The intimacy and the act of submission are like gun powder, and the spanking can be a spark that ignites a situation you were not planning on, or prepared for - but might later regret. I would be very happy to discuss this in private with anyone who needs to.

The most important thing to always keep in mind, is that the Power is ALWAYS ultimately yours; to grant permission, or to withdraw it.

[macyann]

I agree with all you said, good post. But sometimes the damage is emotional, where it becomes apparent over time that they're not who they said they were, in terms of character and the kind of person they are, also deceit becomes apparent. That can happen in any situation of course, not just disciplinary. But it seems to me the discipline situation can be a little more vulnerable and emotionally charged, and one has to be careful this way as well. Once the -er gets to know the -ee, they know exactly how to abuse and take advantage of the person, and even unwittingly.

[Christy]

Macyann you are correct. I know far to many who have had that happen. Its a sad situation when the ER takes advantage and uses the trust between them and the EE to do more harm than good.

[Christy]

Bump

[DunBenSpanked]

Just when you think you've learned all you think there is to learn about this spanking stuff and your journey through it....

I thought I would share a new awakening or realization I've had recently, because it directly relates to the issue of Power and Control, Safety and Expectations - and it is a bit humbling to share this because of how diligently I advocated one of my former beliefs.

That belief was: "You are always in charge and you can ALWAYS say no"

To the best of my knowledge, there are few if any posts where someone admits what I have realized.

Because of the power exchange dynamic, in certain situations it is possible to psychologically lose the ability to say "no".

I can tell you that if I had read that even 6 months ago - I would argued vehemently that it's not true. (especially since I have been rebellious and had authority issues most of my life). But I had a discipline experience recently that honestly changed my perspective.

Without going into all the details, MissBam (my sweetie) and I have a long distance relationship and we've discussed the effectiveness of her making use of a third party (a mutual friend) to help me with some accountability issues like procrastination, sleep habits, etc whenever she isn't with me. During a surprise visit from this woman a few months ago - she became increasingly frustrated as more and more of the stuff I had not done became evident - until finally she went off the deep end, and dragged me upstairs for what I knew would not be a "fun" kinda spanking. Well, in the course of her olympic caliber fussing, scolding and lecturing she kept working herself into a fever pitch, which in turn - found expression through a series of implements as I was bent across an ottoman. This is hard to articulate, but I sort of found myself slipping away - I suspect it may have been the mythical "subspace" that gets mentioned - but at the time I had no idea what was happening in my head, but I did know that my butt was on the edge of blistered , and then I saw her pick up a large, 1/2" thick wooden paddle tennis racket with holes....

Everything in my brain said to say "no", or "start begging", or plead or yell "uncle" - but I didn't...I couldn't. She laid into me pretty close to full force at least a dozen times - and the only thing I heard come out of my mouth were grunts and groans. When she was done, I would not move (could not move)....it was the closest I've been to feeling absolute and complete mental and physical submission.

Now here's the thing - if I had read this account myself a year ago - I would have either thought it was baloney, or I would have been totally envious. But the REALITY is, that it was deeply troubling for a few days until I was able to sort it out. I was really fortunate that this woman still had my best interests at heart, and did not exploit that situation and her power anymore than she did. She was right too - I deserved what I got...didn't like it - but I deserved it and needed it. However, I can testify with absolute confidence, that I now understand how some women find themselves unwittingly sexually exploited by some so-called "mentors" or spankers. I have friends who have shared stories with me about things they found themselves doing to "express their gratitude" to some spanker for their discipline, and I've always thought that in their position should have been as simple as just saying "no" or "stop". One woman I knew said that her spanker said that if she were truly grateful, she would offer him the virginity of her butt for caring about her enough to discipline her - and she was mortified afterwards that she had said nothing to stop him.

So my advice to newbies has changed a bit. Instead of relying only on your ability to say no at anytime, you MUST be able to rely on the integrity of the person you are playing with - and the only way to to that is with due diligence, research, references, dialogue and direct communication. If I were a woman starting out and looking, I would not hesitate to ask a presumptive spanker for references. I would him straight out if he had ANY sexual expectations, and I would be sure we were on the same page about what "sexual" means. One woman I know told me she knew a who spanker thought a hand job as a "thank you" wasn't sexual - it was just good manners! I would also talk to a few people that person had spanked and ask them the same direct questions.

This isn't meant to scare anyone - I just felt this experience opened my eyes more about the issue of power and control, and thought it might be responsible to share it -

Ben

[gravano]

Was she able to tell

Just when you think you've learned all you think there is to learn about this spanking stuff and your journey through it....

I thought I would share a new awakening or realization I've had recently, because it directly relates to the issue of Power and Control, Safety and Expectations - and it is a bit humbling to share this because of how diligently I advocated one of my former beliefs.

That belief was: "You are always in charge and you can ALWAYS say no"

To the best of my knowledge, there are few if any posts where someone admits what I have realized.

Because of the power exchange dynamic, in certain situations it is possible to psychologically lose the ability to say "no".

I can tell you that if I had read that even 6 months ago - I would argued vehemently that it's not true. (especially since I have been rebellious and had authority issues most of my life). But I had a discipline experience recently that honestly changed my perspective.

Without going into all the details, MissBam (my sweetie) and I have a long distance relationship and we've discussed the effectiveness of her making use of a third party (a mutual friend) to help me with some accountability issues like procrastination, sleep habits, etc whenever she isn't with me. During a surprise visit from this woman a few months ago - she became increasingly frustrated as more and more of the stuff I had not done became evident - until finally she went off the deep end, and dragged me upstairs for what I knew would not be a "fun" kinda spanking. Well, in the course of her olympic caliber fussing, scolding and lecturing she kept working herself into a fever pitch, which in turn - found expression through a series of implements as I was bent across an ottoman. This is hard to articulate, but I sort of found myself slipping away - I suspect it may have been the mythical "subspace" that gets mentioned - but at the time I had no idea what was happening in my head, but I did know that my butt was on the edge of blistered , and then I saw her pick up a large, 1/2" thick wooden paddle tennis racket with holes....

Everything in my brain said to say "no", or "start begging", or plead or yell "uncle" - but I didn't...I couldn't. She laid into me pretty close to full force at least a dozen times - and the only thing I heard come out of my mouth were grunts and groans. When she was done, I would not move (could not move)....it was the closest I've been to feeling absolute and complete mental and physical submission.

Now here's the thing - if I had read this account myself a year ago - I would have either thought it was baloney, or I would have been totally envious. But the REALITY is, that it was deeply troubling for a few days until I was able to sort it out. I was really fortunate that this woman still had my best interests at heart, and did not exploit that situation and her power anymore than she did. She was right too - I deserved what I got...didn't like it - but I deserved it and needed it. However, I can testify with absolute confidence, that I now understand how some women find themselves unwittingly sexually exploited by some so-called "mentors" or spankers. I have friends who have shared stories with me about things they found themselves doing to "express their gratitude" to some spanker for their discipline, and I've always thought that in their position should have been as simple as just saying "no" or "stop". One woman I knew said that her spanker said that if she were truly grateful, she would offer him the virginity of her butt for caring about her enough to discipline her - and she was mortified afterwards that she had said nothing to stop him.

So my advice to newbies has changed a bit. Instead of relying only on your ability to say no at anytime, you MUST be able to rely on the integrity of the person you are playing with - and the only way to to that is with due diligence, research, references, dialogue and direct communication. If I were a woman starting out and looking, I would not hesitate to ask a presumptive spanker for references. I would him straight out if he had ANY sexual expectations, and I would be sure we were on the same page about what "sexual" means. One woman I know told me she knew a who spanker thought a hand job as a "thank you" wasn't sexual - it was just good manners! I would also talk to a few people that person had spanked and ask them the same direct questions.

This isn't meant to scare anyone - I just felt this experience opened my eyes more about the issue of power and control, and thought it might be responsible to share it -

Ben

Was she able to tell that you could not respond? I remember you discussing this, and as I recall, you ultimately found what happened to be fair and reasonable (although it reads quite differently, at least to me). However, notwithstanding that, do you think she was mindful of the state you were in as she continued to punish you?

I've been with one pro who seems more attuned to this than others. She asks if I'm "still there," because sometimes when the pain is too great I start to distract myself and try to separate from what is happening. However, I'm not sure how aware most ERs are of this sort of thing. There is "subspace" and there is "dissociation," both of which I think can lead to that sort of non-responsiveness.

[DunBenSpanked]

Truthfully, no.....she is still learning the art of spanking and discipline - it's more likely that one of two things (or both) happened....I just got lucky and she stopped, or there was something instinctive in her that saw me sort of "roll over and go belly up" energywise that cued her to somehow know that she had made her point...

Sorry if this is a redundant post - I could not remember if I had shared this

[gravano]

There seem to be a lot of red flags in that scenario: new to spanking and discipline, paying a surprise visit, and (to some extent) anger and a loss of control ( "fever pitch," "off the deep end"). Very glad it turned out OK.

I hope somebody debriefed her about the dangerous situation she put you in.

[woobie0902]

There is "subspace" and there is "dissociation," both of which I think can lead to that sort of non-responsiveness.

I think subspace refers to a mental state similar to a runners high; a flood of those 'feel good' endorphins while dissociation is finding a way to separate what is happening to the body by taking your mind elsewhere.

For many, including myself, this usually would be evident when I would go limp and become verbally and physically unresponsive. My partner was very much aware that this signaled a time to stop since I would normally continue struggling as long as I could and then when physically spent, just say enough or tell him to stop some other way.

Another member mentioned a time when a well known friend went into a unforeseen psychotic rage and he was in very real danger of physical harm. I found this incident to be very alarming and terrifying. I thought the whole point of a safe word was so that a spanker would NOT push you beyond your limitations.

This is exactly why I have not pursued a spanking relationship after I lost my partner with either a male or female spanker; it took years for me to reach that level of trust,and the fear of even the slightest possibility of physical, emotional or sexual abuse prohibits any kind search outside of friendship.

"So my advice to newbies has changed a bit. Instead of relying only on your ability to say no at anytime, you MUST be able to rely on the integrity of the person you are playing with - and the only way to to that is with due diligence, research, references, dialogue and direct communication. If I were a woman starting out and looking, I would not hesitate to ask a presumptive spanker for references. I would him straight out if he had ANY sexual expectations, and I would be sure we were on the same page about what "sexual" means. " (Ben)

Excellent advice. Newbies should also recognize that the reality might be very different than the fantasy and to let their spanker/mentor know in advance that they are very new to this. Not many will remember Hill Street Blues, but "Be careful out there!"

[Christy]

Been awhile since I bumped this. Reposting to do so.

I’m posting this as a response to being contacted in private by different ee’s who tell horror stories of being abused and taken advantage of by the people spanking them.

Because this is serious and appears to be happening more and more, I’d like to address the issues of Power and Control, as it relates to the relationship between ee's and ‘Er’s, before, during and after a session.

As an ‘ee, you must keep in mind that while you may have a need and craving to relinquish control to someone, ultimately you must accept the responsibility to say “No” or “Stop” (or whatever safe word had been agreed upon) should the circumstances demand it. Whatever happens in a session, only does so with your permission and those of us who spank, only do so with YOUR permission, and therefore a session should end immediately if that permission is withdrawn.

Any session that continues after permission is withdrawn, is no longer a session - it is an assault, and you should treat it accordingly. That means doing everything you would do if you were personally attacked on the street. Run, escape, call or scream for help, etc.

I would like to suggest to any ‘ee, especially those who are new to this, that you invest time and effort into building relationships with some of the more experienced people on this forum before proceeding. There is a very potent exchange of power that takes place during a session, and it should not be underestimated. The intimacy and the act of submission are like gun powder, and the spanking can be a spark that ignites a situation you were not planning on, or prepared for - but might later regret. I would be very happy to discuss this in private with anyone who needs to.

The most important thing to always keep in mind, is that the Power is ALWAYS ultimately yours; to grant permission, or to withdraw it.

[Christy]

Bump

[ammon]

Thanks, Christy...

i've heard You are a Wonderful Spanker!

Thanks for all You do!

[Christy]

Thank you Ammon.

[Christy]

Been awhile since I bumped this. Reposting to do so.

I’m posting this as a response to being contacted in private by different ee’s who tell horror stories of being abused and taken advantage of by the people spanking them.

Because this is serious and appears to be happening more and more, I’d like to address the issues of Power and Control, as it relates to the relationship between ee's and ‘Er’s, before, during and after a session.

As an ‘ee, you must keep in mind that while you may have a need and craving to relinquish control to someone, ultimately you must accept the responsibility to say “No” or “Stop” (or whatever safe word had been agreed upon) should the circumstances demand it. Whatever happens in a session, only does so with your permission and those of us who spank, only do so with YOUR permission, and therefore a session should end immediately if that permission is withdrawn.

Any session that continues after permission is withdrawn, is no longer a session - it is an assault, and you should treat it accordingly. That means doing everything you would do if you were personally attacked on the street. Run, escape, call or scream for help, etc.

I would like to suggest to any ‘ee, especially those who are new to this, that you invest time and effort into building relationships with some of the more experienced people on this forum before proceeding. There is a very potent exchange of power that takes place during a session, and it should not be underestimated. The intimacy and the act of submission are like gun powder, and the spanking can be a spark that ignites a situation you were not planning on, or prepared for - but might later regret. I would be very happy to discuss this in private with anyone who needs to.

The most important thing to always keep in mind, is that the Power is ALWAYS ultimately yours; to grant permission, or to withdraw it.

[kkajdm]

This thread is terrifying to me.
i am thankful for it though.

It feels that it will be impossible to safely explore spanking.

I still do not have a clear sense of how to screen potential spankers.

Nor do I really know what would be considered "going too far."
I have much to consider.

[Spanknutt]

@kkajdm - you have a right to request references from potential spankers. If they refuse, it's a red flag. Having said that, getting a reference is no guarantee but it improves your odds. There are other precautions you can take - request to see an ID, license plate, etc. but if you do, be prepared to share the same. Make it known that you will be using a safe call the first time you have a session with someone. Anyone who is responsible will understand you are only protecting yourself. If they are not willing to be transparent, they are probably hiding something (i.e. married) or potentially risky. Always meet in a public place (bar, restaurant) the first time you meet someone. Your gut can tell you a lot about someone. I have done presentations on internet safety, how to evaluate online profiles, etc. Feel free to contact me if you have questions.

[Wifey]

Kkajdm, take your time. If it is someone you meet here take some time to chat and to check out posts. I actually asked a moderator if someone I was considering meeting had ever been a problem. As far as knowing when it's too far, no one can really decide that but you. To start I'd say if it makes you uncomfortable or terrified then that's too far. Good luck

[Christy]

This thread is terrifying to me.

i am thankful for it though.

It feels that it will be impossible to safely explore spanking.

I still do not have a clear sense of how to screen potential spankers.

Nor do I really know what would be considered "going too far."

I have much to consider.

kkajdm

I'm sorry I didn't post this to terrify you. I just want to make EE's more aware and know they have final say in everything.

As far as screening potential spankers I agree with Spanknutt and Wifey. Don't be in a hurry and defiantly ask lots of questions.

Always trust your gut.

[Wifey]

I'm going to mostly agree with Christy. Verify as much as you can before trusting your gut. Pay attention to details. Check people out as much as you can. If you meet someone here see who they are friendly with. If you are meeting at munches ask about him or her. It's not that much different from dating in that regard. You are smart to be wary, just take care and let it advise you not stop you!