Power and Control

[woobie0902]

Excellent advice regarding precautions and your safety and control YOU have , Agreed, admin, please pin; would be tremendously helpful for newcomers and those just starting out who have little or no experience that all ultimate decisions should be well defined before jumping in head first.

Thanks for bumping.

[NOA1986]

I know I'm late in the game to post here but I'm so happy you posted this. Fifty Shades of Grey.. was a hotter book but that's not Domestic Discipline. Also, the book being popular is good and bad.. good because it makes DD more mainstream. Bad because anyone that has read book that liked it is going to say they are involved in BDSM, not knowing what they might be getting into. People have to be careful because someone will say oh ya I am a sub and the dom thinks she knows the lifestyle..things could go bad and downhill from there.

NOA

[Christy]

Well said NOA.

[gravano]

I have been seeing ads recently from professional female spankers who refuse to use safe words because the discipline is not "real." I could probably get myself out of the situation if it became dangerous, but it has been quite concerning to me, especially when one said that her "hard limit" is "open wounds."

[katekk]

I have been seeing ads recently from professional female spankers who refuse to use safe words because the discipline is not "real." I could probably get myself out of the situation if it became dangerous, but it has been quite concerning to me, especially when one said that her "hard limit" is "open wounds."

To my way of thinking, the bigger issue is that of consent. Spanking between adults should always be consensual -- if it isn't, then it has crossed the boundary into abuse and assault. You should always have the option of wirhdrawing your consent, even in the middle of a spanking. The use of a safeword is a practical way of ensuring that you can withdraw your consent, but there may be other ways of stopping the action in a predetermined and mutually agreed-upon way. The bottom line is that if you cannot withdraw your consent and stop the spanking at ANY point when you feel uncomfortable or unsafe, then it is NOT consensual. You shouldn't have to worry about being physically able to escape.

Spanking is always "real" to me -- but I am an adult, not a child, and I have a legal, ethical, and moral duty to protect myself and others from physical and emotional harm. It really doesn't get any more "real" than that.

[JoKitten]

That's just crazy. Limits need to be discussed and a safe word established in the event, however slight of things going way beyond what you're emotionally comfortable with.

[Aspenleafquaking]

I personally never had a safe word! I trusted my spanker enough to know she would not be abusive in any way! I believe there are many times people rush into relationships before they really know and trust who is spanking them! It is a consensual activity, but there also needs to be a level of complete trust before you allow someone to bare your bottom and spank you! It is just as important for the spanker to trust the spankee to be completely honest about their needs and limits!

Aspen

[woobie0902]

I personally never had a safe word! I trusted my spanker enough to know she would not be abusive in any way! I believe there are many times people rush into relationships before they really know and trust who is spanking them! It is a consensual activity, but there also needs to be a level of complete trust before you allow someone to bare your bottom and spank you! It is just as important for the spanker to trust the spankee to be completely honest about their needs and limits!

Aspen

I never had a safe word either; but I was married to my spanker. I trusted him to notice physical indications that I was at my limits; when I stopped struggling and became limp. my mind was somewhere else. He was able to recognize that I had zoned out and actually was not capable of recognizing I was at my limits. The best I can describe it is a total dissociation between mind and body. Some call it sub space, and it can be dangerous if your er is not completely in tune with your mindset.

[katekk]

I personally never had a safe word! I trusted my spanker enough to know she would not be abusive in any way! I believe there are many times people rush into relationships before they really know and trust who is spanking them! It is a consensual activity, but there also needs to be a level of complete trust before you allow someone to bare your bottom and spank you! It is just as important for the spanker to trust the spankee to be completely honest about their needs and limits!

Aspen

To clarify, I was responding to a concern about professional spankers who REFUSE to allow a safeword. If you know and trust your spanker enough (and vice versa) to go without a safeword, then that's a mutually agreed upon and consensual condition. I also do not feel the need for a safeword in my current spanking relationship. If, however, I wanted one to feel safe and the spanker refused to allow it, I would not allow that person to spank me. In fact, this actually happened to me -- I had an appointment with a pro and ended up walking away from that situation when I discovered she did not allow safewords. It takes time and lots of communication to build that level of trust.

Frankly, if I were a spanker, I would definitely want to ensure that the EE always had the ability to withdraw consent. Not allowing a safeword heightens the risk of being accused of assault or abuse. But there are other threads on this site that cover consent, coercion, and liability issues in more detail.

Hope that helps.

[gravano]

To my way of thinking, the bigger issue is that of consent. Spanking between adults should always be consensual -- if it isn't, then it has crossed the boundary into abuse and assault. You should always have the option of wirhdrawing your consent, even in the middle of a spanking. The use of a safeword is a practical way of ensuring that you can withdraw your consent, but there may be other ways of stopping the action in a predetermined and mutually agreed-upon way. The bottom line is that if you cannot withdraw your consent and stop the spanking at ANY point when you feel uncomfortable or unsafe, then it is NOT consensual. You shouldn't have to worry about being physically able to escape.

Spanking is always "real" to me -- but I am an adult, not a child, and I have a legal, ethical, and moral duty to protect myself and others from physical and emotional harm. It really doesn't get any more "real" than that.

Thanks for your post. It did concern me a lot, and I've seen multiple pros websites that state they don't have safewords and don't offer an alternative way of withdrawing consent. It concerned me quite a bit, which is apparently well founded.

[gravano]

I never had a safe word either; but I was married to my spanker. I relied on him to notice physical indications that I was at my limits; when I stopped struggling and became limp, my mind was somewhere else. He was able to recognize I had zoned out and actually was not capable of recognizing when that i had reached my physical limits. The best I can describe it is a total dissociation between the mind and body. Some call it sub space, and it can be dangerous if your er is not completely in tune with your mindset.

That's really interesting. I just listened to an audio book by a well known pro spanker, and she describes sub space as a very desirable event. However, I know someone who was abused as a child and used that dissociation as a protective measure, much to her long term psychological detriment. Perhaps it's more desirable in a consensual adult situation.

[Aspenleafquaking]

To clarify, I was responding to a concern about professional spankers who REFUSE to allow a safeword. If you know and trust your spanker enough (and vice versa) to go without a safeword, then that's a mutually agreed upon and consensual condition. I also do not feel the need for a safeword in my current spanking relationship. If, however, I wanted one to feel safe and the spanker refused to allow it, I would not allow that person to spank me. In fact, this actually happened to me -- I had an appointment with a pro and ended up walking away from that situation when I discovered she did not allow safewords. It takes time and lots of communication to build that level of trust.

Frankly, if I were a spanker, I would definitely want to ensure that the EE always had the ability to withdraw consent. Not allowing a safeword heightens the risk of being accused of assault or abuse. But there are other threads on this site that cover consent, coercion, and liability issues in more detail.

Hope that helps.

I also originally communicated with a professional spanker who did not allow safe words! I didn't end up seeing her because I was not able to build the strong trusting relationship I did with Miss Bam. She invested the time to really get to know me! This allowed me to also get to know her and trust her! That is why for me trusting my spanker to have my best interest at heart made me feel safe.

I do believe there are spankers out there who have a need to control a spankee! It is very important for an individual to be very careful about becoming involved in these situations that could be perceived as abusive! Safty comes first in all situations! If you don't feel safe walk away!

Aspen

[FirmSpankerMD]

I also originally communicated with a professional spanker who did not allow safe words! I didn't end up seeing her because I was not able to build the strong trusting relationship I did with Miss Bam. She invested the time to really get to know me! This allowed me to also get to know her and trust her! That is why for me trusting my spanker to have my best interest at heart made me feel safe.

I do believe there are spankers out there who have a need to control a spankee! It is very important for an individual to be very careful about becoming involved in these situations that could be perceived as abusive! Safty comes first in all situations! If you don't feel safe walk away!

Aspen

Aspen I totally agree with you!

As a Spanker/Mentor, I 100% have a need to control a spankee, that is my job/goal, unless we have agreed to a funishment/fun spanking. However as has been said, Two people need to work together and build that trust to get to a mutual point. There is no way that I would take on a spankee and order that person to not be able to use a safeword. That is just ME, I understand that, but I feel it is VERY important. The session is NOT about me, it is about the "ee" and why we are there. Trust takes time to build, and cannot just be handed over.

[DunBenSpanked]

Thanks for your post. It did concern me a lot, and I've seen multiple pros websites that state they don't have safewords and don't offer an alternative way of withdrawing consent. It concerned me quite a bit, which is apparently well founded.

My bet is that once you were in discussions with a pro, you would discover that most do in fact, advocate a safeword system of some sort. I suspect that advertising that they do not believe in safe words, is more about marketing than it is about actual procedure. I'm guessing that a lot of men fantasize about an "over-the-top" kind of spanking where they have absolutely no control, but as been suggested, in reality that would be exceedingly dangerous with a stranger (for both parties)....

Aspen suggests that she has "never had a safe word", but in reality, she has - just not a formalized one. Her spanker knows her well enough to be able to interpret the fine line between her "OW Stop!" and her "OW Stop!" . So she is telegraphing a "safe word" of sorts. A pro you just met would have a really hard time with that.

When you are really fortunate, the person spanking you is able to walk the very fine line between allowing you to feel "just safe enough" by knowing you can pull the plug if you really need to, and at the same time "just scared enough" that it might not work - which helps makes it "real".

I am really fortunate (totally bragging here)

[Christy]

Glad to see this post is getting responses and healthy discussions.

[gravano]

I may have asked one too many questions regarding safety issues to the pros who don't use safe words. Now, I'm getting blown off. Ahh the fun.

[obafgkm]

I may have asked one too many questions regarding safety issues to the pros who don't use safe words. Now, I'm getting blown off. Ahh the fun.

I'm not sure if I am interpreting your diction correctly; but if I am, they are certainly not "pros." You are lucky that you are being "blown off," as those who don't fathom this underlying principle, especially for a newbie, are not worthy of calling themselves "pros." If I am misinterpreting your comment, please describe it further.

[gravano]

I was using "pro" as "professional" in the sense of one who gets paid and does it for a living. One of the individuals seems to be well known in my geographical region and has glowing client testimonials on her site. She also came recommended by a member on a board similar to this one.

I realize you're right in your assessment. I need to drop it and look elsewhere.

[gravano]

My bet is that once you were in discussions with a pro, you would discover that most do in fact, advocate a safeword system of some sort. I suspect that advertising that they do not believe in safe words, is more about marketing than it is about actual procedure. I'm guessing that a lot of men fantasize about an "over-the-top" kind of spanking where they have absolutely no control, but as been suggested, in reality that would be exceedingly dangerous with a stranger (for both parties)....

Aspen suggests that she has "never had a safe word", but in reality, she has - just not a formalized one. Her spanker knows her well enough to be able to interpret the fine line between her "OW Stop!" and her "OW Stop!" . So she is telegraphing a "safe word" of sorts. A pro you just met would have a really hard time with that.

When you are really fortunate, the person spanking you is able to walk the very fine line between allowing you to feel "just safe enough" by knowing you can pull the plug if you really need to, and at the same time "just scared enough" that it might not work - which helps makes it "real".

I am really fortunate (totally bragging here)

In at least one case. I confirmed the no safe word rule was serious. She got glowing reviews from clients and talks about nurturing and being maternal, so the no safe word thing blew my mind because it seemed callous and unsafe and because some of the clients' session descriptions were frighteningly severe. In another case, I asked and got no response whatsoever.

[katekk]

In at least one case. I confirmed the no safe word rule was serious. She got glowing reviews from clients and talks about nurturing and being maternal, so the no safe word thing blew my mind because it seemed callous and unsafe and because some of the clients' session descriptions were frighteningly severe. In another case, I asked and got no response whatsoever.

Based on your location, I think I know who you're talking about, and based on what I've learned since I cancelled with her for the same reason (absolutely refusing to allow a safeword for a newbie), you're probably wise to look elsewhere. Take your time, listen to your gut, don't compromise your safety -- the right person is out there. You may just have to look awhile, spend some time corresponding with folks, and maybe travel a bit to get your needs met.

PS -- Christy is in your area and is safe, sane, and caring. I've seen her and would recommend her to a newbie.

[gravano]

Based on your location, I think I know who you're talking about, and based on what I've learned since I cancelled with her for the same reason (absolutely refusing to allow a safeword for a newbie), you're probably wise to look elsewhere. Take your time, listen to your gut, don't compromise your safety -- the right person is out there. You may just have to look awhile, spend some time corresponding with folks, and maybe travel a bit to get your needs met.

PS -- Christy is in your area and is safe, sane, and caring. I've seen her and would recommend her to a newbie.

Yes, it's pretty easy to narrow down based on my location. Thanks for the sage advice.

[Christy]

Bump

[Christy]

Been awhile since I bumped this. Reposting to do so.

I’m posting this as a response to being contacted in private by different ee’s who tell horror stories of being abused and taken advantage of by the people spanking them.

Because this is serious and appears to be happening more and more, I’d like to address the issues of Power and Control, as it relates to the relationship between ee's and ‘Er’s, before, during and after a session.

As an ‘ee, you must keep in mind that while you may have a need and craving to relinquish control to someone, ultimately you must accept the responsibility to say “No” or “Stop” (or whatever safe word had been agreed upon) should the circumstances demand it. Whatever happens in a session, only does so with your permission and those of us who spank, only do so with YOUR permission, and therefore a session should end immediately if that permission is withdrawn.

Any session that continues after permission is withdrawn, is no longer a session - it is an assault, and you should treat it accordingly. That means doing everything you would do if you were personally attacked on the street. Run, escape, call or scream for help, etc.

I would like to suggest to any ‘ee, especially those who are new to this, that you invest time and effort into building relationships with some of the more experienced people on this forum before proceeding. There is a very potent exchange of power that takes place during a session, and it should not be underestimated. The intimacy and the act of submission are like gun powder, and the spanking can be a spark that ignites a situation you were not planning on, or prepared for - but might later regret. I would be very happy to discuss this in private with anyone who needs to.

The most important thing to always keep in mind, is that the Power is ALWAYS ultimately yours; to grant permission, or to withdraw it.

[SpankerGeek]

Some spankers don't like to allow a safe word for punishment. I keep one around just in case of medical issues or needing to use the restroom. Either way the safe word should be followed 100% of the time.

[Christy]

Been awhile since I bumped this. Reposting to do so.

I’m posting this as a response to being contacted in private by different ee’s who tell horror stories of being abused and taken advantage of by the people spanking them.

Because this is serious and appears to be happening more and more, I’d like to address the issues of Power and Control, as it relates to the relationship between ee's and ‘Er’s, before, during and after a session.

As an ‘ee, you must keep in mind that while you may have a need and craving to relinquish control to someone, ultimately you must accept the responsibility to say “No” or “Stop” (or whatever safe word had been agreed upon) should the circumstances demand it. Whatever happens in a session, only does so with your permission and those of us who spank, only do so with YOUR permission, and therefore a session should end immediately if that permission is withdrawn.

Any session that continues after permission is withdrawn, is no longer a session - it is an assault, and you should treat it accordingly. That means doing everything you would do if you were personally attacked on the street. Run, escape, call or scream for help, etc.

I would like to suggest to any ‘ee, especially those who are new to this, that you invest time and effort into building relationships with some of the more experienced people on this forum before proceeding. There is a very potent exchange of power that takes place during a session, and it should not be underestimated. The intimacy and the act of submission are like gun powder, and the spanking can be a spark that ignites a situation you were not planning on, or prepared for - but might later regret. I would be very happy to discuss this in private with anyone who needs to.

The most important thing to always keep in mind, is that the Power is ALWAYS ultimately yours; to grant permission, or to withdraw it.